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Open letter to Gitea

gitea-open-letter.coding.social

101–110 of 152 posts

Re: Open letter to Gitea

#101

Here's an explanation of DoOcracy, as linked from the open letter: https://communitywiki.org/wiki/DoOcracy (If you're like me and hadn't heard of the concept before.)

In bicycle culture they do an unorganized event called critical mass; in the past I've seen these events hijacked by a "xerocracy" where someone shows up to the meeting point, starts handing out (xeroxed/photo copied) fliers with a map with a different route and then take off in that direction and.... most of the crowd follows them. Different kind of Do-ing but very effective in truly flat hierachies when executed well.

Re: Open letter to Gitea

#102

As an outsider this is not compelling. Claims aren't substantiated or given context (I would expect links to promises and explanations of how specific actors have violated them). There is also a lot of work being expected in the form of non profit companies and organizational structures and seemingly very little volunteering to do that work, which to my eye is immediately suspect. I guess I'd expect this document to…

Presumably the author of this letter didn't participate in a process of deciding the person in charge of bringing you lunch is an elected position, didn't put themselves forward to it and didn't agree to the process happening at all.

Re: Open letter to Gitea

#103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the other hand... OpenOffice vs. LibreOffice. Clearly the name was immensely valuable in that case.

Sure it was immensely valuable. But imagine if the code disappeared overnight. Then LibreOffice wouldn't be were it is now.

> one of the most important assets

Emphasis mine. I think that's a defensible statement about names/trademarks for any project that's gained meaningful traction, and Open- vs. Libre-Office is an apt illustration of that.

Re: Open letter to Gitea

#104
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't slander them by saying they're throwing a tantrum, without even talking about what parts of the document you're referring to or why it is you feel that way, and then decry how they're not giving anyone the benefit of the doubt. That is pearl clutching. Writing them to resolve this issue in good faith, is giving them the benefit of the doubt.

Outsider opinion: So I think the entire doc as a first step in supposed good communication is in bad faith. Bringing this out into the public, and being on the front page of HN makes it seem like a stunt, and for pressure, not a good faith plea. I feel like a private conversation between the concerned parties should have happened first, and if it did that should have been mentioned. If that didn't work then maybe mak…

> I feel like a private conversation between the concerned parties should have happened first

With a dispersed community that used to work in public, against the company owners who secretly prepared this since at least March this year (likely longer) and not even informed their own maintainers properly in the private channel they have for that.

Re: Open letter to Gitea

#105
post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Outsider opinion: So I think the entire doc as a first step in supposed good communication is in bad faith. Bringing this out into the public, and being on the front page of HN makes it seem like a stunt, and for pressure, not a good faith plea. I feel like a private conversation between the concerned parties should have happened first, and if it did that should have been mentioned. If that didn't work then maybe mak…

> I feel like a private conversation between the concerned parties should have happened first With a dispersed community that used to work in public, against the company owners who secretly prepared this since at least March this year (likely longer) and not even informed their own maintainers properly in the private channel they have for that.

So I think saying it's all of the community is a little generous, it's like 20 people who've signed, and yes even then. A private conversation should have happened. As an outsider, that's a hearsay situation to me so forgive me if I don't outright trust the intentions of the small group of people who put out this letter, I don't know anything about them.

And if the situation actually is as nefarious as you say it is, with communication having broken down, the letter should have called that out directly instead of being wishy washy. If people feel that strongly about it not being a mistake, time to use strong language and lay out all the facts.

Re: Open letter to Gitea

#106
post #94

Here's an explanation of DoOcracy, as linked from the open letter: https://communitywiki.org/wiki/DoOcracy (If you're like me and hadn't heard of the concept before.)

Sounds like a rebrand of meritocracy.

The link contrasts it with meritocracy as this:

> In a meritocracy, the most qualified people for a job are selected for that job. In a do-ocracy, whoever does the job gets it, no matter how well they’re qualified.

Re: Open letter to Gitea

#107
post #25
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> First you do the right thing and kindly ask to repair trust that has been breached Gitea is a self-labeled "DoOcracy". nobody owes an apology. forking is inherent to open source methodology. ideological conflicts help nobody but those who lead them. the fact is that the work is done by few, and those few have decided to exercise their rights in open source to do what is their prerogative.

> the fact is that the work is done by few, and those few have decided to exercise their rights in open source to do what is their prerogative. There's a whole bunch of contributors to this project, who've never been informed. Even maintainers were caught by surprise as only some marginal bits of info were apparently spread. A project creating CONTRIBUTING guidelines, then Owners not honoring them? Effectively just p…

What contributing guidelines were not honored?

Re: Open letter to Gitea

#108
post #94

Here's an explanation of DoOcracy, as linked from the open letter: https://communitywiki.org/wiki/DoOcracy (If you're like me and hadn't heard of the concept before.)

Sounds like a rebrand of meritocracy.

Addressed in the document:

> Meritocracy: In a meritocracy, the most qualified people for a job are selected for that job. In a do-ocracy, whoever does the job gets it, no matter how well they’re qualified.

I'd add that "merit" is a less useful concept to construct an organization around than "doing". Merit is impossible to measure, and every measure prone both to being gamed and to unfairly underestimating people and shutting them out, but is also the wrong thing to optimize for. The thing you want to optimize for is the work being, and for the overall effort to result in a high quality end product. Most parts of a given project aren't particularly critical and it doesn't matter who does them as long as they're done. If a particular part of the project is struggling, then the problem is that they needs support, not that they have "insufficient merit;" taking the unnecessary moral component out of it makes it easier to see what the problem is and to organize the resources to solve it. If some role is sensitive and requires special qualifications, that's an exception that can be dealt with as it arises (and if you're in a problem space where that's the rule and not the exception, fair enough, perhaps this isn't the approach for you).

I've not been in an organization that labeled itself a "DoOcracy", but it sounds like it's potentially less political and more productive than meritocracy.

Re: Open letter to Gitea

#109
post #100

Am I right in assuming that though lots of work has happened in gitea since the fork, at least half of the code there was still written by the guy behind gogs? They're just going to form a for-profit based on his work and cut him out entirely?

It's MIT licensed, so anyone can incorporate based on the original author's work and turn a profit. He is not owed anything. This is an eventuality you are implicitly accepting when choosing MIT over GPL.

I'm confused, this would also be true with the GPL, no (just with the added restriction they would have to redistribute their changes)?

My understanding is the point of free software is that you can do (almost) anything you want with it, including sell it.

Re: Open letter to Gitea

#110

...domains and trademarks...are one of the most important assets any Free Software project has (if not the most important)... This rubs me the wrong way. Surely the discussion history, documentation, and the freaking code are more important than the name. I generally don't like open source becoming beholden to comercial interests, and I don't know enough about this story to know if that's really what is happening her…

See for example: https://bonebaboon.tilde.site/rust-trademark-policy-issue/

Trademarks can be a burden to FLOSS.

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