101–110 of 482 posts
I must be the only person on HN who thinks the lightening port is better than USB-C.
Maybe a better UX for you but definitely not better performance
It's sad that it took legislation to make this happen, but I can see why. I worked in a pseudo-Apple-store during the height of the 30-pin dock connector and I sold so many cases, speaker docks, charging cables, and all sorts of weird accessories that were built for the 30-pin connector. Then Apple switched to Lightning. It was better in every. single. way. And yet people got burnt. There was so much hardware that wa…
Look at nearly every other device manufacturer when the 30-pin connector was being used - Palm, Motorola, Samsung, LG, Sony, etc. all used proprietary connectors that were not only incompatible with each other, but often didn’t work between devices from the same manufacturer. There was no devices to replace (except chargers), because no accessory makers would take the risk of 30 SKUs to support devices that wouldn’t be sold in 6 months and whose bespoke connectors would vanish with the device.
Late in that evolution, device makers decide to standardize on micro-USB, but even that “standard” didn’t last as long as the 30-pin connector.
Lightning was almost universally better (unless you wanted audio and power easily from the same connector), and it also lasted for around 10 years.
USB-C hasn’t even been around as long as lightning, so even though most devices have standardized on it, it has a shorter product life than Lightning has had. Even now, it’s still a mystery to me whether a USB-C adapter and cable will charge my device or fry it.
I’m hopeful that USB-C and whatever charging standard du jour sticks around for a while. The physical connector seems robust enough (though Lightning’s single metal block with no flimsy plastic blade seems pretty optimal), and small enough (again, Lightning).
The idea, however, that Apple is always changing cables when they’ve had two (2!) over two decades is an amazing feat. It’s suboptimal that they were proprietary, but the idea that there is a mountain of e-waste because of them ignores how long they were compatible and the effect of their ubiquity had on accessory makers.
I welcome a new USB-C world, but really think the issues with the 30-pin and Lightning cables ignore everyone else in the industry. I’m also concerned that when USB-D is released, will this legislation prevent device makers from adopting it for stupid legal reasons. This seems specifically like something that should be left to markets.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
Two key differences vs last time: 1. As you mentioned, most accessories have moved to wireless. I still (usually) use a physical cable for charging, and I guess I have a 3.5mm dongle, but I think those are the only two things I've plugged into my iPhone in years. Docks with a physical port, in particular, were super popular 10+ years ago and don't really exist anymore. People won't be throwing away speakers. 2. They…
> I'm more cynical in my interpretation of Apple's motives: I think they just wanted those licensing dollars They've switched every other non-iPhone device to USB-C. The more plausible interpretation would be that they don't want to piss off a core constituency of customers who've built up 10 years of Lightning cables. The number of people who care about standardizing on USB-C are definitely less than the vocal folks…
The only device I know of that started out on lighting and switched to USB-C was the iPad, and that was specifically because they're pushing it as a "creator" device, for which people needed to be able to plug in things like flash drives, SD card adaptors, cameras, mice and keyboards, etc. There's significantly less drive for those kinds of accessories on iPhone
It's sad that it took legislation to make this happen, but I can see why. I worked in a pseudo-Apple-store during the height of the 30-pin dock connector and I sold so many cases, speaker docks, charging cables, and all sorts of weird accessories that were built for the 30-pin connector. Then Apple switched to Lightning. It was better in every. single. way. And yet people got burnt. There was so much hardware that wa…
Something I found interesting when discussing this with my wife.. All my friends are tech heads and champing at the bit to have usb-c in their iPhones. But when she asked me why people were mad about the switch to usb-c it took me by surprise. Then she showed me a lot of online responses from non technical people who see the change of port as annoying and wasteful because now all their stuff won’t work without adapte…
People just don't realize what are standard cables vs what are bespoke for their application, and this sort of thinking has bitten me personally as well.
I must be the only person on HN who thinks the lightening port is better than USB-C.
And I guess that means we won't get any more cable interface innovation for a while. Are we really that certain that micro USB -- I mean, USB-C -- is the format to standardize on for the foreseeable future?
And all because Apple refused to play ball and just adopt USB-C like the rest of the industry. They're too used to US regulators that just roll over and don't follow through with their threats. For over a decade the EU has tried to get the industry to adopt a common standard without mandating it in law (we got microUSB on all phones instead of the previous proprietary ports thanks to the 2009 voluntary EU memorandum…
History lesson: Apple worked with the USB-IF to create USB-C, to make sure it met their needs for both USB and Thunderbolt. They were the first to put USB-C on a laptop, the 12" MacBook in the spring of 2015 — an amazing feat considering that the spec was just finalized in the fall of 2014. They were also the first company to release a laptop with just one USB-C port for power/expansion.
Lightning was pre-USB-C. When it was introduced, Apple committed to support for 10 years.
If you want to invent a conspiracy theory that makes Apple look bad, here it is: If Apple would've switched to USB-C without an EU mandate, they would've received mountains of bad press about the unprecedented amount of e-waste and confusion that will result because of this switch. So they pressured the EU to mandate the change to a standard that Apple helped pioneer so that Apple's environmentally-friendly record would remain unblemished.
It's sad that it took legislation to make this happen, but I can see why. I worked in a pseudo-Apple-store during the height of the 30-pin dock connector and I sold so many cases, speaker docks, charging cables, and all sorts of weird accessories that were built for the 30-pin connector. Then Apple switched to Lightning. It was better in every. single. way. And yet people got burnt. There was so much hardware that wa…
Something I found interesting when discussing this with my wife.. All my friends are tech heads and champing at the bit to have usb-c in their iPhones. But when she asked me why people were mad about the switch to usb-c it took me by surprise. Then she showed me a lot of online responses from non technical people who see the change of port as annoying and wasteful because now all their stuff won’t work without adapte…
Android phones have used USB-C cables for many years. The Nintendo switch and PS5 controllers use USB-C cables. Chromebooks use USB-C cables. The alarm clock I just bought uses a USB-C cable. My keyboard uses a USB-C cable. Every MacBook made in the last five years (and most iPads sold in the last couple years) uses a USB-C cable.
It's very possible, if they're nontechnical, that they already have cables that will work with it and don't even realize it (which to be fair might be its own problem, but it's certainly a smaller problem)
Earlier quoted context omitted.
It’s not Apple that you have to worry about not supporting the full spec - they already do with USB C iPads. It’s the Android manufacturers and your local convenience store. Meaning it is still “contributing to ewaste” when you can’t use your old USB C cords to get all of the functionality that is part of the USB C spec. This is yet another example of EU regulators not thinking through their proposals — see also the…
I'm sorry, but I don't see how we can lay the blame for corporations cutting corners on completely unrelated legislation. I get that there can be unintended consequences with passed legislation, but these seem too disconnected to be relevant. As in, there have been substandard USB-C cables since USB-C first came out. The existence of those cables can't be laid at the feet of requiring Apple to use USB-C on the one re…
You mean the same legislation that can enforce USB C can’t enforce a minimum standard for USB C:
- must support USB 3 speeds
- must support video over USB and a certain minimum standard (this is a standard)
- etc?
Apple has been moving their entire lineup to USB-C for a while already (iPad Pro in 2020, iPad Mini in 2021, more devices this year) . Sure, in public they have to oppose tech sector regulation, but I wouldn't be surprised if they were secretly happy as it provides them with an excuse. If some customers who have heavily invested into the Lighting ecosystem complains then can always say "look, it was the EU, blame the…
It's sad that it took legislation to make this happen, but I can see why. I worked in a pseudo-Apple-store during the height of the 30-pin dock connector and I sold so many cases, speaker docks, charging cables, and all sorts of weird accessories that were built for the 30-pin connector. Then Apple switched to Lightning. It was better in every. single. way. And yet people got burnt. There was so much hardware that wa…
As someone in the Apple ecosystem looking out, I disliked that the 30-pin connector replaced FireWire, but understood it was thinner. That connector then stuck around for around 10 years. Look at nearly every other device manufacturer when the 30-pin connector was being used - Palm, Motorola, Samsung, LG, Sony, etc. all used proprietary connectors that were not only incompatible with each other, but often didn’t work…