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macOS 13 Ventura review

arstechnica.com

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Re: macOS 13 Ventura review

#101

Post by pwinnski »

dainiusse wrote: post #75
kossTKR wrote: post #26

Is there any legit reason Apple is hastening the drop of support for older computers when they can be upgraded just fine with the OpenCore Legacy Patcher? It seems wrong to me in an age of excessive e-waste that seemingly arbitrary thresholds is set that has zero hardware links. I generally really like Apple, and is planning on retiring my 2014 Macbook Pro for an M2, but it's still working absolutely great. But i cou…

I explain it simply - they will haste to ger rid of all Intel laptops and don't have to maintain x86 version of macOS. That is them becoming evil.

It is not enough to explain it simply, one should also explain it accurately.

They are still supporting Intel chips from the Haswell generation and later, although as plorkyeran points out, they can now assume AVX2 chip instructions are available, which simplifies things for them.

Re: macOS 13 Ventura review

#102

Post by SllX »

smoldesu wrote: post #91
SllX wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There’s always new cable standards. Even if 100% of Apple’s products that currently use lightning switched to USB-C tomorrow, I expect I’ll still be using lightning cables for the next 5 years just on devices I already own; and further into the future at some point even after everything I have is on USB-C there will be some cable standard to replace that too. It’s not like lightning is some obscure connection: there’…

Lightning is some obscure connector, though. It's proprietary and Apple directly controls the licensing for people who want to use it. USB-C is a component in a class of it's own, there are no royalties to be paid when you manufacture something with it. For everyone who isn't Apple, USB-C is a direct upgrade. That's just a fact of modern manufacturing, not a subjective opinion from an Apple pariah. > but there’s noth…

> Lightning is some obscure connector, though.

In terms of the quantity of devices shipped and still in use since Apple introduced it on the iPhone 5? This is flatly false; and it’s not just iPhones but also: iPods, iPads, AirPods, Magic Mice, Keyboards, and Trackpads. Apple moves massive amounts of product, and their biggest sellers tend to be supported for longer than their direct competitors.

Lightning is proprietary, but it isn’t obscure.

> For everyone who isn't Apple, USB-C is a direct upgrade. That's just a fact of modern manufacturing, not a subjective opinion from an Apple pariah.

Correct. My last (and only two) Android phones went from microUSB to USB-C. The USB-C connector was more durable, but I also learned the hard way that you can’t just pickup a USB-C cable and expect USB 3.1 or greater transfer rates. The first extra cable I bought back when there only maybe three options at most was a USB 2.0 cable with a Type-C connector.

My travel USB-C cables also held up less well than my travel Lightning cables.

> That's the point of having a universal connector, though.

More accurately, this is the hope. Time will tell us if it is a false hope or if the hope has been realized. Personally I’m hoping when Apple makes the jump, they also up the transfer rates. It’s not that Apple couldn’t make a lightning connector that supported > USB 2.0 transfer rates, but they only chose to do so for one product release ever (the original iPad Pro).

I think people are pinning a lot of hopes on USB-C and: microUSB to USB-C, it was warranted. Type-A to Type-C, it was warranted. I don’t think it makes a damn bit of difference going Lightning to Type-C. Maybe some fringe situational benefits, but I’m not convinced Type-C is the final standard we will see; nor will it “solve” cable waste.

Re: macOS 13 Ventura review

#103

Post by pwinnski »

slifin wrote: post #51
pohl wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems like maybe a bigger cause of e-waste might be the mindset that a device immediately needs to go in a dumpster the day after some OS upgrade comes out that won't run on it.

As a software developer I don't recommend my friends or family put important information or sign in to any device that is running unmaintained OS software Because I assume they're exploitable from a security point of view after that point Of course no one follows that advice but what are we supposed to do?

2016 Macs are not "unmaintained" yet. They should receive security updates for at least two more years, which will make them eight years old at that point.

Re: macOS 13 Ventura review

#104

Post by danaris »

zdragnar wrote: post #65
duped wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lightning has been around longer than USB-C and they've changed their charging port once in 20 years. That's a better history than every other mobile device manufacturer. Their most recent cable is a bridge between the eventual USB-C transition without obsoleting everyone's existing peripherals and cables.

It is also a proprietary connector, which contributes to waste by virtue of not being able to reuse cables from other devices. I can understand that they didn't want to have customers upset that a dodgy third party cable fried their expensive Apple equipment, but the transition to USB-C can't come soon enough IMHO.

It is a proprietary connector developed at a time when proprietary connectors were still common, and the non-proprietary options (mini-USB and micro-USB) were much lower bandwidth, much more fragile, and still had the issue of "which way up do I plug it in??"

This meme that Apple loves to create bags and bags of arbitrary proprietary cables needs to just die. It's 100% FUD.

Re: macOS 13 Ventura review

#105

Post by orr721 »

AndroidKitKat wrote: post #85
orr721 wrote: post #46

Anyone else noticed that the Preview app was tinkered with again ? Now it lost the ability to open PostScript files. This feature worked from the very beginning of Mac OSX up till Monterrey. The command line PostScript tools are still present though. Also all Ruby gems with native extensions stopped working for me, even the pre-installed system ones.

Thank heavens someone else noticed that Preview lost its ability to open PostScript. I occasionally use Preview to render manpages as PDF so I can print them out and using the Ventura beta made me think it was just a bug. It's a shame that it is missing in the final release -- I even filed several Feedback reports with basically no response. I am not sure at all what utility there is in removing features from Preview…

Removing features like this is just plain stupid. Preview was one of the most valuable apps for viewing files preinstalled on every Mac. While I can understand that raw PostScript files are rarely seen nowadays, Encapsulated-PostScript is still used, i.e. for graphs in scientific software and publications.

To add an insult to injury, the Monterey era trick still works. Change the file extension from .eps or .ps to .ai (Adobe Illustrator) and QuickLook will happily display the file. It will even offer you to "Open in Preview" which then fails.

Re: macOS 13 Ventura review

#106

Post by Tagbert »

za3faran wrote: post #64

Does anyone else dislike the "phonification" of desktop UIs? Desktop and phone use are very different, with very different screen real estate.

Not particularly. The integration of iOS details into Mac OS is pretty limited. There are also Mac OS features leaking into iPad OS (windows with sidebar navigation panel).

Re: macOS 13 Ventura review

#107

Post by jahewson »

luuuzeta wrote: post #78

>But unlike minimizing or maximizing an app from the Dock, each "stage" can contain multiple app windows from multiple apps; switch from one stage to another, and every window on that stage will pop back up on your screen in exactly the arrangement you were using before. How does this new feature perform with external monitors? One of my gripes with macOS is how awful it's at managing windows. For example except for…

I just spent $15 on my lunch.

Re: macOS 13 Ventura review

#108

Post by sirn »

pram wrote: post #5

Anyone know if Wacom/Cintiq drivers are working on Ventura?

My Cintiq Pro 16 stopped working with 6.4.0 driver on Ventura (no pen/touch input). Wacom Center could detect the display, but it looks like the driver itself just crashes. Rebooting do fix it, but it hasn't been very stable. I haven't tried reinstalling the driver yet, but I would say avoid for now if Wacom driver is a requirement.

Re: macOS 13 Ventura review

#109

Post by pwinnski »

I hate System Preferences, have hated System Preferences for years and years. I cannot seem to get used to where things are, no matter how often I use it. The order doesn't make sense to me, the grouping doesn't make sense to me, and the icons aren't visually distinct enough for me. I might be the only one, but it's hard to imagine any overhaul of System Preference not resulting in an improvement.

I'm sure it's just me. I'm the only one struggling to understand why "Desktop & Screen Saver" is so far from "Displays" and whether what I'm looking for is in one of those or maybe "Dock & Menu Bar."

It could be that the new System Settings won't resolve my lack of memory when it comes to this one particular area of MacOS, but I can't imagine it getting worse. I use search for most things now as it is.

Re: macOS 13 Ventura review

#110

Post by smoldesu »

SllX wrote: post #102
smoldesu wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lightning is some obscure connector, though. It's proprietary and Apple directly controls the licensing for people who want to use it. USB-C is a component in a class of it's own, there are no royalties to be paid when you manufacture something with it. For everyone who isn't Apple, USB-C is a direct upgrade. That's just a fact of modern manufacturing, not a subjective opinion from an Apple pariah. > but there’s noth…

> Lightning is some obscure connector, though. In terms of the quantity of devices shipped and still in use since Apple introduced it on the iPhone 5? This is flatly false; and it’s not just iPhones but also: iPods, iPads, AirPods, Magic Mice, Keyboards, and Trackpads. Apple moves massive amounts of product, and their biggest sellers tend to be supported for longer than their direct competitors. Lightning is propriet…

Type C will not be the last cable we see, but even if it staves off a new standard for only 5 years, it will be massively effective at reducing cable waste. Again, maybe you don't see the benefits if you're fully-entrenched in Apple's ecosystem. As someone who only has one or two of their peripherals, Lightning is the worst part of their products. Even for people in the Apple ecosystem, switching from Lightning to USB-C likely wouldn't require any new cables - anyone who owns a recent Macbook or iPad likely already owns a USB-C cable, if not having the one from their Switch/headphones/game controller/DAC/monitor. Lightning is just another thing, and it's existence becomes increasingly annoying the further you exist from Apple's ecosystem. It only becomes infuriating when you realize that Apple's omission of USB-C is entirely arbitrary and not held up by technical limitation.

> I also learned the hard way that you can’t just pickup a USB-C cable and expect USB 3.1 or greater transfer rates.

Apple designed the Thunderbolt spec with their own two hands to ensure this isn't an issue. Increasing the upper bounds of transfer speed won't ruin the iPhone experience any more than it ruined the Macbook experience.

> More accurately, this is the hope.

The hope is that the world's largest companies would treat their consumers with a modicum of respect instead of telling me to buy my mom an iPhone or to buy another e-waste cable for an accessory I can barely justify using. Apple has always been on the forefront of technical adoption - their refusal to abandon Lightning is product negligence, plain and simple. It's so obvious that European legislators can see it without even being told the technical benefits. We're out of hope, our only recourse is literally taking Apple to court and fining them obscene amounts of money until they listen. This has started in Europe (where consumer protection is strong) but eventually America will start raising their eyebrows too. The defense for Apple's market position becomes weaker every day.

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