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Accelerated forgetting of a trauma event after a single dose of hydrocortisone

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Re: Accelerated forgetting of a trauma event after a single dose of hydrocortisone

#101

Post by JamesianP »

tsimionescu wrote: post #98
JamesianP wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't consider any kind of acute pain acceptable personally. Even if short-lived. Unless it's needed as a signal to pull your hand out of a fire or something.

If you didn't feel pain while having an injury, you'd quickly find that you are extremely likely to greatly aggravate that injury (e.g. walking with a broken bone in your foot is possible, but it hurts terribly to help you not do it, sine it will ruin the bone and any chance of ever recovering). We know this for sure since there is an extremely rare disease in which people literally feel no pain. These people have a…

I'd prefer to be careful rather than be tortured into the correct behavior. As for walking on a broken ankle, I'd categorize that under temporary pain signals to notify you to stop a behavior. Also it takes a lot less than acute pain to keep normal people from injuring themselves.

Re: Accelerated forgetting of a trauma event after a single dose of hydrocortisone

#102

Post by chris37879 »

isomorph wrote: post #77
P_I_Staker wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there anything to back up these ideas. Admittedly, I haven't read the article and am not familiar with the science. That said, these aren't things that can be figured out based on gut feeling or how something "seems". Your body doesn't remember anything, what are you talking about? There's no reason to think that it would be impossible to create a pill to mitigate some trauma. This seems like a dangerous obsession…

Your body does remember things. See the book “The Body Keeps The Score”.

Also, "The Body Remembers" volumes 1 and 2.

Re: Accelerated forgetting of a trauma event after a single dose of hydrocortisone

#103

Post by dkiok21k »

kayodelycaon wrote: post #4
fasthands9 wrote: post #3

In the US it seems like it is extremely in vogue to talk about trauma and PTSD. From a layman's POV, it seems pretty obvious that talking about something very often (whether it be with a therapist or just friends) would elevate the amount of times someone thinks of something. From my understanding of the paper, this drug is a success if it lowers the amount of time someone thinks of a traumatic memory >We found that…

It doesn't take much thought to refute this idea. Talking about something can help you process it and feel better. If you have a bad day, talking to someone about it usually helps. Hell, bitching to a coworker about the idiot you just got off the phone with is a pastime for the average office workers.

I have been and I am still dealing with intrusive thoughts for the past year. I am still unable to talk about most of them or recall them voluntarily - only the rough circumstances, but not the actual situation(s). For the first months after the event, I was unable to drive a car or a bike because the thoughts come with body reactions: muscle spasms, blurred vision, loss of hearing, etc. It is still somewhat dangerous for me to drive because my hands or feet can suddenly cramp and I am unable to release. Intrusions can happen suddenly and without a trigger. Most of my intrusions now come with no "attached memory" at all, just emotions and very painful body reactions. I am still mostly unable to participate in "ordinary life" because you have a lot of situations where you don't want to have that happen around other people, because their reactions will really not help you "feel safe", which then contributes to retraumatization.

I still have this multiple times, every day, even with 2-3x therapy per week since a year.

This is nothing like "recalling a memory". Also, since I am unable to clearly express what I have witnessed/experienced, talking to "ordinary people" (e.g. most my friends) about it is mostly met with reactions that really don't help at all.

Re: Accelerated forgetting of a trauma event after a single dose of hydrocortisone

#104

Post by tsimionescu »

JamesianP wrote: post #101
tsimionescu wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you didn't feel pain while having an injury, you'd quickly find that you are extremely likely to greatly aggravate that injury (e.g. walking with a broken bone in your foot is possible, but it hurts terribly to help you not do it, sine it will ruin the bone and any chance of ever recovering). We know this for sure since there is an extremely rare disease in which people literally feel no pain. These people have a…

I'd prefer to be careful rather than be tortured into the correct behavior. As for walking on a broken ankle, I'd categorize that under temporary pain signals to notify you to stop a behavior. Also it takes a lot less than acute pain to keep normal people from injuring themselves.

If you didn't feel pain, you wouldn't know that you had an injury, or even that you are getting close to injuring yourself.

For example, when putting your hand on a surface, if you didn't feel the pain of extreme heat, you wouldn't know that your skin is getting burned. Or, if you miss-stepped and sprained your ankle but didn't feel the pain, you would keep putting your full weight on that sprained ankle and probably turn it into a serious injury. Without pain, you wouldn't know you're having a heart attack and wouldn't seek any medical attention. I can go on and on: accute pain is extremely important to basic health. You can't "be careful", unless you think it's reasonable to get full medical checkups after every walk.

Note that "acute" means "short lived", it doesn't mean it's particularly strong. It's the opposite of "chronic", which means "long term". For example, when you prick your finger, you're feeling some (very mild) accute pain, which serves the purpose of letting you know your skin was pierced and you need to stop pushing in that direction.

Re: Accelerated forgetting of a trauma event after a single dose of hydrocortisone

#105

Post by Traubenfuchs »

cantrevealname wrote: post #75
Traubenfuchs wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's medical advice is what I am most proud of and we now trial a variant of this bot to give out medical... "ideas" to MDs who need a sparring partner for non trivial diagnoses. It was fed with all of pubmed -and more! In the end, self treatment is always ones personal risk.

bad bot (Just to test if the alleged GTP3 bot keeps replying.)

This is a first, but you have been blocked.

Re: Accelerated forgetting of a trauma event after a single dose of hydrocortisone

#106

Post by JamesianP »

tsimionescu wrote: post #104
JamesianP wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd prefer to be careful rather than be tortured into the correct behavior. As for walking on a broken ankle, I'd categorize that under temporary pain signals to notify you to stop a behavior. Also it takes a lot less than acute pain to keep normal people from injuring themselves.

If you didn't feel pain, you wouldn't know that you had an injury, or even that you are getting close to injuring yourself. For example, when putting your hand on a surface, if you didn't feel the pain of extreme heat, you wouldn't know that your skin is getting burned. Or, if you miss-stepped and sprained your ankle but didn't feel the pain, you would keep putting your full weight on that sprained ankle and probably…

Indeed. And now that you've repeated your point, I shall repeat mine: "I don't consider any kind of acute pain acceptable personally. Even if short-lived. Unless it's needed as a signal to pull your hand out of a fire or something." Please pay extra careful attention to that last sentence this time around. Anyway let's recall this isn't a thread about fun physiology facts and making magic wishies that turn into nightmares or something, but about the appropriateness of intervention in someone's emotional suffering. Since you've written so much on the importance of acute pain, how long would you say is an appropriate amount of suffering before someone can get relief? Here's an odd one, what about an acute anxiety attack??

Re: Accelerated forgetting of a trauma event after a single dose of hydrocortisone

#107

Post by tsimionescu »

JamesianP wrote: post #106
tsimionescu wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you didn't feel pain, you wouldn't know that you had an injury, or even that you are getting close to injuring yourself. For example, when putting your hand on a surface, if you didn't feel the pain of extreme heat, you wouldn't know that your skin is getting burned. Or, if you miss-stepped and sprained your ankle but didn't feel the pain, you would keep putting your full weight on that sprained ankle and probably…

Indeed. And now that you've repeated your point, I shall repeat mine: "I don't consider any kind of acute pain acceptable personally. Even if short-lived. Unless it's needed as a signal to pull your hand out of a fire or something." Please pay extra careful attention to that last sentence this time around. Anyway let's recall this isn't a thread about fun physiology facts and making magic wishies that turn into night…

I don't know what point you think I'm making. The poster I was replying to was claiming that stress after a traumatic experience is normal, and not a disorder that should be treated.

My whole point was that this is utterly wrong, and that, while stress during a traumatic experience is normal and potentially even required (akin to pain), stress after the experience is definitely not a good thing, and should be treated in any way possible (whether that's family support, therapy, or medication is up to every individual case) - just like chronic pain.

Relating to pain, people should get relief as soon as the pain has done its job - that is, as soon as they know about the injury and the area they have to protect - any more pain than that is unnecessary, even if normal. In the vast majority of circumstances, I imagine this is probably a matter of seconds or minutes after the injury occurred. I can imagine some weird, vanishingly rare, circumstances where the pain may legitimately need to be endured for longer, but that would be splitting hairs.

And an accute anxiety attack (assuming this occurs without some traumatic event) is obviously not normal or helpful and should be treated immediately. If this anxiety attack is happening during a traumatic event (say, I am currently being held at gunpoint), taking a pill to calm down may be less required (though even that is debatable, especially for a panic attack, which generally leaves you entirely helpless).

Re: Accelerated forgetting of a trauma event after a single dose of hydrocortisone

#108

Post by JamesianP »

tsimionescu wrote: post #107
JamesianP wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed. And now that you've repeated your point, I shall repeat mine: "I don't consider any kind of acute pain acceptable personally. Even if short-lived. Unless it's needed as a signal to pull your hand out of a fire or something." Please pay extra careful attention to that last sentence this time around. Anyway let's recall this isn't a thread about fun physiology facts and making magic wishies that turn into night…

I don't know what point you think I'm making. The poster I was replying to was claiming that stress after a traumatic experience is normal, and not a disorder that should be treated. My whole point was that this is utterly wrong, and that, while stress during a traumatic experience is normal and potentially even required (akin to pain), stress after the experience is definitely not a good thing, and should be treated…

I think you're repeatedly "dad-splaining" basic science facts. True of false?

When has grief done its job? I've never been held at gunpoint yet somehow experienced stress on many occasions. How many of those do you want to subject me to? The DSM generally says 6 months to become a disorder for most things from what I've read. How about considering a question that isn't trivial to answer?

Re: Accelerated forgetting of a trauma event after a single dose of hydrocortisone

#109

Post by HeyLaughingBoy »

colanderman wrote: post #85
HeyLaughingBoy wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A long time ago my wife shattered her wrist. In the ER, they explained that they needed to reset it so it could be put in a splint before surgery could be scheduled. They weren't going to use anesthetic. She would be conscious of the pain as they moved her wrist into position, but they'd give her something so she wouldn't remember the experience. 15+ years later she remembers telling them to go ahead and do it, then…

Interesting -- I recently had a similar experience (very bad wrist fracture), but they used a nerve block instead. I was conscious and it was painful, but not unbearably or traumatically so. I wonder why a nurse would choose one over the other.

Dunno. It was about 15 years ago and may have had something to do with the extent of the injury? She was 25 at the time and the orthopedic surgeon kept saying he couldn't imagine the amount of energy it took to do that much damage to such young bones. The wrist was shattered into at least 5 pieces.

This is one reason we always give a shoutout to Tria Orthopedics in the Twin Cities, MN region when someone needs an orthopedist: she was one of their first patients and the wrist maintained full range of motion after healing.

Re: Accelerated forgetting of a trauma event after a single dose of hydrocortisone

#110

Post by spoiler »

Traubenfuchs wrote: post #72
spoiler wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

bad bot (The profile says to post this in case the bot commented on a sensitive topic)

It's medical advice is what I am most proud of and we now trial a variant of this bot to give out medical... "ideas" to MDs who need a sparring partner for non trivial diagnoses. It was fed with all of pubmed -and more! In the end, self treatment is always ones personal risk.

Ah, I commented with the command message since I felt uncomfortable with a bot giving out medical advice over the internet. But given it seems to specialise in medical advice, it's fine (maybe?). Perhaps add a disclaimer at the end of messages?
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