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Retired U.S. generals, admirals take top jobs with Saudi crown prince

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Re: Retired U.S. generals, admirals take top jobs with Saudi crown prince

#101
post #91
post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

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Diversity is incompatible with meritocracy. RAF is gonna pay the price for letting the politics du jour impact their performance based criterias.

Demonstrate the RAF is a perfectly spherical merticocracy operating in a vacuum.

Re: Retired U.S. generals, admirals take top jobs with Saudi crown prince

#102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's ok for two different things to both be bad, we don't have to pretend they're the same.

I don't see much of a difference between the two. They're both institutional murder and torture.

There is action and there is the reaction. You could argue that the action is identical. But the reaction—internal, institutional, political—was and is not participating similar.

People in power will abuse power. That’s inevitable in any regime. What makes the difference is how they are held accountable, especially by their own regime.

Re: Retired U.S. generals, admirals take top jobs with Saudi crown prince

#103
post #57

Also just today: BBC headline "Ex-UK pilots lured to help Chinese military, MoD says" https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-63293582 With more background info: https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/is-china-really-using-... Some highlights from the BBC article: > Former British military pilots are being lured to China with large sums of money to pass on their expertise to the Chinese military, it is claimed. > Up to 30 former…

>is funny - how would they gather that evidence without confessions from the pilots involved or from the Chinese? MI6 is a thing. What do you think they do all day. You really think these people with classified info in their heads are just walking around blabbing secrets in China or Saudi or wherever?

That would be evidence they won't be able to use in court? It would be giving up on their sources at the least, even if they are not disclosed directly. I have my doubts in them being able to find out exactly which pilot gave the Chinese some specific piece of information. They would need a source that is part of the direct training, which I find a bit optimistic.

Re: Retired U.S. generals, admirals take top jobs with Saudi crown prince

#104
post #41

Working for the butcher prince. We don't need that kind of people near any NATO army. Let's hope they stay in Saudi Arabia. In other news, this is just another symptom of a shrinking US empire. Pax americana is starting to crumble.

Under both Obama and Trump the US provided *direct* logistical and targeting support for the Saudi bombing of Yemeni targets. Biden finally stopped it in 2021. The humanitarian catastrophe in Yemen would not have happened without U.S acquiescence.

Saudi Arabia is not a U.S adversary, it is an ungrateful client state and has been since Roosevelt.

Re: Retired U.S. generals, admirals take top jobs with Saudi crown prince

#105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Law is only a paper veneer to keep honest people honest. Legal acts do about as much to deter desertion and security leaks as speed limit signs keep people from speeding.

That's an awfully bold statement. It'd be nice if you showed some evidence that classified information leakage and military desertion rates are anywhere near the rate of speed limit violations, which at a first approximation I would guess is pretty near 100% of licensed drivers doing it at least once. As a person who served in the military and still holds a clearance, I don't know the true rates, but in 15 years I ha…

The former president routinely leaked classified information and took whole boxes worth or documents to his house after the presidency. Edwards Snowden and Julian Assange exist. There have been many "leaks" of classified information. Just because you and your associated coworkers didn't leak doesn't mean that leaks don't happen, unfortunately.

Re: Retired U.S. generals, admirals take top jobs with Saudi crown prince

#106
This has been going on for years, but now it's news? Here's a blurb from some random 2009 blog post on how this works (more about Iraq, but Vinnell has been training Saudi forces for years, and probably is involved with Yemen as well):

> "The Pentagon has awarded a 48-million-dollar contract to train the nucleus of a new Iraqi army to Vinnell Corporation, a US firm which also trains the Saudi National Guard. The Fairfax, VA-based company, a subsidiary of the US aerospace firm Northrup Grumman, said on its website it was hiring former US army and marine officers to train infantry battalions and combat support units for the new Iraqi army. The Vinnell Corp. of Alexandria, Va., owned by politically connected Northrop-Grumman."

More on that:

https://www.corpwatch.org/article/iraq-vinnells-army-defensi...

It's just so painfully obvious that these kind of articles wouldn't be getting published right now if the US government wasn't angry with Saudi Arabia about crude oil production.

Re: Retired U.S. generals, admirals take top jobs with Saudi crown prince

#107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Law is only a paper veneer to keep honest people honest. Legal acts do about as much to deter desertion and security leaks as speed limit signs keep people from speeding.

That's an awfully bold statement. It'd be nice if you showed some evidence that classified information leakage and military desertion rates are anywhere near the rate of speed limit violations, which at a first approximation I would guess is pretty near 100% of licensed drivers doing it at least once. As a person who served in the military and still holds a clearance, I don't know the true rates, but in 15 years I ha…

[deleted]

Re: Retired U.S. generals, admirals take top jobs with Saudi crown prince

#108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Law is only a paper veneer to keep honest people honest. Legal acts do about as much to deter desertion and security leaks as speed limit signs keep people from speeding.

That's an awfully bold statement. It'd be nice if you showed some evidence that classified information leakage and military desertion rates are anywhere near the rate of speed limit violations, which at a first approximation I would guess is pretty near 100% of licensed drivers doing it at least once. As a person who served in the military and still holds a clearance, I don't know the true rates, but in 15 years I ha…

>> Law is only a paper veneer to keep honest people honest.

> That's an awfully bold statement.

Worse, it is entirely false on its face because it not only completely ignores enforcement as well as social contract, the purpose of law is not "to keep honest people honest," nor is law "paper veneer." Laws are rules to regulate behavior, and as such fundamentally they are ideas, therefore they are intangible and only recorded to medium like paper, digital storage, stone tablets, what have you.

Re: Retired U.S. generals, admirals take top jobs with Saudi crown prince

#109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My dim understanding is that once you are enrolled in General- and Admiral-level security clearances, you are not quite free free to freelance your experience globally without significant limitations. The key questions raised would seem to be: did they in fact obtain the required signoffs, and are the current requirements sufficient or do they need some adjustment?

The saudis are allies and we sell them many of our top weapon systems.

Yes, and there are a lot of signoffs involved.

Re: Retired U.S. generals, admirals take top jobs with Saudi crown prince

#110

Chances are good these US ex-military are not loyal to Saudi Arabia. They're only doing it for the money, not fanatical idealisms. We have the Logan Act and Espionage Act to protect us, and we benefit from these activities through income taxes.

It's not uncommon for ex-military to take such jobs as a way to insulate the Pentagon (or your favourite government) even though they in fact still 'work'for them. This was (still is?) a classic of French influence in Africa, for instance. Here my interpretation is that the US keep a close watch on the Saudis...

The US Army let soldiers take leave to fight in Afghanistan’s during the 1980s. This is small potatoes compared to that.
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