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Dutch employee fired by U.S. firm for shutting off webcam awarded €75K in court

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101–110 of 466 posts

Re: Dutch employee fired by U.S. firm for shutting off webcam awarded €75K in court

#101

he was ordered to take part in a virtual training period called a "Corrective Action Program." This is the sort of name given to processes uses when an employee is already performing below expectations. (Where I work it’s a more euphemistic Performance Improvement). If that’s the case here then his firing was a bit less sudden than it appears. Though the entire monitoring process seems draconian regardless.

PIPs are a tool for managing out employees that don’t perform well or don’t yield to often abusive company demands like e.g. overtime or pissed of somebody in management or connected to management.

Re: Dutch employee fired by U.S. firm for shutting off webcam awarded €75K in court

#102
post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Plus cue in the shock of US Employees, when they realize his court costs to sue his employer were less than 500 dollars.

This isn't harmonized across the EU though, e.g. in German labor courts each side pays their own fees and lawyers regardless of outcome. So even a completely illegal action by your employer can/will still cost you hundreds to thousands of euros when you go and fight it. (The flip side is you don't have to pay for a team of expensive corpo-lawyers in case you loose)

You're applying the American Rule backwards. There is no default presumption in the US legal system that you pay the winner's legal fees.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_rule_(attorney%27s_fe...

Re: Dutch employee fired by U.S. firm for shutting off webcam awarded €75K in court

#103
post #93
post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

European in general. My wife works for a biotech company in Austria which was recently aquired by an american company and it's so funny to hear about their efforts to adapt to EU law and culture. Most of their training material is still unchanged from their US branch so there are things they list as benefits for all employees like - 3 Weeks paid vacation (we get 5 by law) - Health insurance (you know the drill) - 3 w…

All true, but it might be worth mentioning that most of those benefits are still Austrian law, not European law. So while they generally better than the US, other EU states might lack some of those law.

Many countries go further, but the EU does require a minimum.

- 4 weeks paid holiday

- 4 months unpaid parental leave, 14 weeks paid for the mother

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_labour_law is the best overview I can find.

Re: Dutch employee fired by U.S. firm for shutting off webcam awarded €75K in court

#104
post #47
post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As others said, the dutch term is probably different. Their (bad) legal argument was. He refused to follow work instructions, hence he did not perform his work as required, hence we can fire him "op staande voet" which is an on the spot firing that does not require a long process of attempting to improve employee performance. They needed a 'op staande voet' firing because the long process takes months. The justificat…

> I believe many US states have similar procedures. Most US companies follow similar procedures because they are a sensible thing to do. But 49 out of 50 US states have "at will" employment which means that employers can fire any employee at any time for no reason at all.

US companies follow those procedures because lawyers tell them they'll lose in court if they don't. Sensibility has nothing to do with it.

Re: Dutch employee fired by U.S. firm for shutting off webcam awarded €75K in court

#105
post #4

> Less than a week after the plaintiff was fired, the Rijswijk branch of Chetu Inc. was deregistered from the Chamber of Commerce and shut down on 2 September, records show. So, it's a fair assumption that no organisation in the Netherlands is going to pay out as a result of this. What are the chances of the employee being able to enforce this judgment in a Florida court?

I believe most European countries require some kind of employee liability insurance that will end up paying this.

[deleted]

Re: Dutch employee fired by U.S. firm for shutting off webcam awarded €75K in court

#106

he was ordered to take part in a virtual training period called a "Corrective Action Program." This is the sort of name given to processes uses when an employee is already performing below expectations. (Where I work it’s a more euphemistic Performance Improvement). If that’s the case here then his firing was a bit less sudden than it appears. Though the entire monitoring process seems draconian regardless.

The article also states that he was "telemarketing worker" without much detail about his job duties. Was the company already recording his screen and voice (if applicable) interactions with customers?

Re: Dutch employee fired by U.S. firm for shutting off webcam awarded €75K in court

#107
post #36

I love it when US companies meet Dutch labor laws.

While quality of life in Europe is still great, EU GDP share of the world going down is starting to effect European people more (especially now with the proxy war between US and Russia).

I wish Europeans were a bit more business savy and corporate, and not see businesses as just bad things that are part of life, but of course when I’m in US I see the other extreme where businesses want to extract all value from me all the time, and it gets tiring.

Re: Dutch employee fired by U.S. firm for shutting off webcam awarded €75K in court

#108
post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Plus you can always fire anyone for any reason in the EU, just give them enough money to stomach it.

and give them at least one month notice as well as pay out their unused holidays.

Not really, mutual agreements are a thing. If you pay someone with one month notice 3 months worth of pay to leave on the same day, they would be stupid not to take it.

Re: Dutch employee fired by U.S. firm for shutting off webcam awarded €75K in court

#109
post #72

Unfortunately this is well within corporate “go away” money. They’ll gladly dish over 75k to get a threat off their books. It’s the corporate equivalent to stuffing 20 bucks in your pocket in case you’re held up while out on a run and don’t carry your wallet. Add a zero to make it 750k if you want corporations to think about it deeper.

Keep in mind that this is not about punishment but about damages. 75k goes a long way for an individual and afaik we don't have this system of punitive damages. The state might collect punitive money in a criminal case (not a civil case).

Sometimes I feel like it might be good to meet in the middle (i.e. some amount of punishment awarded to the plaintiff, also as compensation for having had to take a corporation to court and presumably spending months in stress), but then I'm not sure where the line should be. Or perhaps a criminal case should be joined onto this, where the same judge (already familiar with all the details) also decides on a punitive amount going to the state.

Re: Dutch employee fired by U.S. firm for shutting off webcam awarded €75K in court

#110
post #28

It's always something toxic when it comes to US companies. I had to do multiple background checks. In Romania they are unheard of.

Were the background checks for a remote job? That would makes sense. Employing someone several thousands miles away in a foreign country requires a certain amount of due diligence, especially to keep the (tax) authorities happy.
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