Apalled at the comments here, can we please just have some empathy for a second and put politics aside?
People aren't overflowing vessels of infinite empathy and sympathy. They can't be faulted for running dry once in a while.
Hurricane Ian damages in Southeast estimated at $100B to $120B
101–110 of 237 posts
Re: Hurricane Ian damages in Southeast estimated at $100B to $120B
#102I can only assume it will go higher. We need to push FEMA to have a 2 and done rule. After that the property must be returned back to dunes/parks/public spaces.
Yes, 1000x this. It is frustrating to be sending piles of money to these states every year, which they then waste on political stunts like flying legal immigrants to other states, instead of taking care of their citizens, or maybe investing in climate hardening. And then they're completely unprepared for cold weather, hot weather, wet weather, dry weather, ... and say things like "Nobody knew ___ could be so complica…
I doubt FEMA money is actually used for the immigrant stunt and Florida is not unprepared for hurricanes. Florida actually has pretty good stormwater management infrastructure, mostly because it has to. Homes in South Florida are also required to be built out of concrete block and have hurricane windows. Point being: Florida is decently prepared for storms. Could it be better? Of course. But I would not say Florida is complete unprepared. I do think there needs to be changes to insurance and government aid though. We're distributing (read: subsidizing) a lot of the cost of living in an expensive area. We're seeing ripples of this with insurance companies not wanting to insure houses in Florida. That or making it more expensive to get insurance directly (premiums) and indirectly (you can't have a roof over 10 years old in some cases because, by law, they have to pay to replace a roof if a few shingles come off).
I say Florida a lot because I lived there up until recently, I can't speak for other states.
Re: Hurricane Ian damages in Southeast estimated at $100B to $120B
#103Earlier quoted context omitted.
Hurricanes are a fact of life in the gulf and southeastern atlantic coasts. There is no area that has not have been hit twice already in the past century. So all this coastline should be dunes and park spaces?
"So all this coastline should be dunes and park spaces?" Yes. That makes sense to me. What's the downside?
If you want to live in a deindustrialized society, there is no downside. If you like things like international shipping, gasoline, diesel, and having food on your table, there are a few downsides.
Re: Hurricane Ian damages in Southeast estimated at $100B to $120B
#104Earlier quoted context omitted.
Having people educated, healthy, and protected from the damages of homelessness all have positive externalities. Paying people to return to areas that are regularly ravaged by massive storms only benefits them until the next storm and doesn't represent a long term good, especially in the face of climate change.
Shall we apply this moral rule globally then? Say goodbye to Pakistan. I'd love to see the HN crowd that is championing the premise stand up and proclaim all the areas of the globe that people should no longer be allowed to live, huge swaths of which will be in hyper impoverished areas of India, China, Pakistan. They won't dare.
> no longer be allowed
Who's talking about allowing anything? The debate is about whether these people will be subsidised.
Re: Hurricane Ian damages in Southeast estimated at $100B to $120B
#105Earlier quoted context omitted.
Under that rule, what exactly is your plan for replacing all the life-critical logistics infrastructure across the entire Gulf coast? Just abandon the whole thing as a sacrifice zone? How exactly are you going to do any international shipping? Get goods down the Mississippi? Refine half the gasoline the country uses? People don't live in hurricane zones because it's fun. People live there because that's where the job…
> People don't live in hurricane zones because it's fun. People absolutely live in Florida for that reason; people flock there for retirement. > Under that rule, what exactly is your plan for replacing all the life-critical logistics infrastructure across the entire Gulf coast? Strict building codes, no more building below sea level as with New Orleans. Even a few miles from the ocean can often be enough to change "m…
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Re: Hurricane Ian damages in Southeast estimated at $100B to $120B
#106Earlier quoted context omitted.
No one is being told where to live. But there is no reason to subsidize property prices in areas by providing federal taxpayer subsidized insurance. Providing taxpayer subsidized insurance allows people to buy properties with a larger mortgage (for which banks require flood insurance), which allows property prices to rise higher than they would have without taxpayer subsidized insurance.
"We need to push FEMA to have a 2 and done rule. After that the property must be returned back to dunes/parks/public spaces." My response was to this comment at the top, where it was, explicitly and objectively, supporting a policy that dictates where people should live.
The language of the parent is strong, but the context is if those rebuilds were not subsidized, they probably would not happen anymore. If you get rid of the economic incentive to build there... no one would. Of course, to become public space, which is a logical use of damage-prone areas, the land would have to become so cheap from lack of interest that the state could buy it back. It would be a long process to get there, for sure.
Re: Hurricane Ian damages in Southeast estimated at $100B to $120B
#107Apalled at the comments here, can we please just have some empathy for a second and put politics aside?
People aren't overflowing vessels of infinite empathy and sympathy. They can't be faulted for running dry once in a while.
That seems like a low cop-out and an excuse to be an asshole.
Re: Hurricane Ian damages in Southeast estimated at $100B to $120B
#108I can only assume it will go higher. We need to push FEMA to have a 2 and done rule. After that the property must be returned back to dunes/parks/public spaces.
Yes, 1000x this. It is frustrating to be sending piles of money to these states every year, which they then waste on political stunts like flying legal immigrants to other states, instead of taking care of their citizens, or maybe investing in climate hardening. And then they're completely unprepared for cold weather, hot weather, wet weather, dry weather, ... and say things like "Nobody knew ___ could be so complica…
Legal immigrants? The feds flew or bused illegal border crossers who were processed and released to many states, including Florida. Yes it was a political stunt to move them again, but how is it worse than what the feds are doing?
Re: Hurricane Ian damages in Southeast estimated at $100B to $120B
#109Hopefully insurance costs will not be extracted throughout the entire country. The insurance rates must reflect the true cost of residing in hurricane alley.
Can anyone even get (good) insurance in Florida at this point? I believe many large insurance providers have backed out of Florida over the past few years by making their rates so astronomical that there's only one obvious goal.
Being realistic for a second this storm probably killed every remaining private insurer and Citizens (state ran last-resort insurer) will probably have to be bailed out.
Re: Hurricane Ian damages in Southeast estimated at $100B to $120B
#110I can only assume it will go higher. We need to push FEMA to have a 2 and done rule. After that the property must be returned back to dunes/parks/public spaces.
I was looking to move to Fort Myers or Fort Myers Shores with my girlfriend (she’s originally from there), and we looked at five different houses. Based on damage maps/satellite photos/Facebook posts all five of those houses were flooded. But, the problem is only two of them were in any sort of flood zones. The only reason we didn’t buy is because it looked like the market was tanking. I think there is a lot of blami…
I'm pretty sure flood zones don't account for hurricane storm surge. That describes regular seasonal flooding risk.
If you want a map of areas likely to be damaged by hurricanes in the next 10/20/50 years then it's basically the entire coast of Florida.