Facebook settles with FTC, under privacy watch for 20 years • Hacker News Board

Re: Facebook settles with FTC, under privacy watch for 20 years

#101

Post by jellicle » Wed, Nov 30, 2011, 2:22 AM UTC

tokenadult wrote: post #27

jellicle wrote: post #15

So the penalty for ongoing repeated lies and fraud is.... nothing. Zero. The FTC has investigated, and the settlement is zero money and zero penalties. Not one dollar. Whew! I'm glad they were punished! They won't do THAT again! The U.S. is really in late-stage empire breakdown. I don't think there is any significant enforcement of any laws whatsoever against companies and people that are reasonably well connected. T…

On what legal basis would you expect a financial penalty for a free, voluntary-participation online service that did the things that the FTC found that Facebook did? What does the law on the subject give the FTC authority to do?

The FTC Act: "Unfair methods of competition in or affecting commerce, and unfair or deceptive acts or practices in or affecting commerce, are hereby declared unlawful."

The FTC is empowered to enforce that with a variety of penalties, including extensive fines.

Re: Facebook settles with FTC, under privacy watch for 20 years

#102

Post by jellicle » Wed, Nov 30, 2011, 2:23 AM UTC

dreamdu5t wrote: post #53

freehunter wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Possibly something like "Corporations can get away with anything because they run the country and there's no turning back." Just a guess.

Facebook didn't break the law. So I'm not sure what people mean when they say "get away with anything."

The FTC disagrees with you. But maybe you know better?

Re: Facebook settles with FTC, under privacy watch for 20 years

#103

Post by brudgers » Wed, Nov 30, 2011, 2:32 AM UTC

johnnyg wrote: post #18

Many have posted to this thread with complaints that boil down to "this is a slap on the wrist because they are well connected". If you were the FTC, what would you do to Facebook in this case, how would it be supported in law and what long term change for the better would your action create? Privacy is a civil good but it is a fine line to walk indeed to punish an innovator during a recession. Where's the happy medi…

>"If you were the FTC, what would you do to Facebook"

Or Google, Apple, Twitter, Microsoft, Adobe, and thousands of smaller companies who data mine user accounts and change terms of service every day.

I used to have a subscription to The Economist. Recently I purchased an issue at Kroger. Two weeks later a special subscription offer appears in my mailbox - the first marketing material in they have sent in at least three years.

What Facebook did is the bread and butter of today's business - even if it sucks.

Re: Facebook settles with FTC, under privacy watch for 20 years

#104

Post by sunchild » Wed, Nov 30, 2011, 2:41 AM UTC

1010100101 wrote: post #92

sunchild wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wrong. The FTC said very clearly that it thinks Facebook lured consumers in under false pretenses. That's punishable by criminal and civil penalties, in theory. The FTC usually settles these kind of cases, AFAIK. Sometimes there's money involved, sometimes not. Anyone who isn't in compliance with their own published privacy policy should be worried about the FTC; they can (again, in theory) do serious harm to a busin…

So are you suggesting that despite FB's rather sizeable legal budget and level of investment they will _still_ not be able to bring themsleves into compliance and stay that way? At least until the IPO. If Facebook even exists 20 years let alone 5 years from now I would be shocked. The data they've collected will of course probably have an infinite lifetime.

In the US, given that they're not in a regulated industry (except to the extent they qualify as a site aimed at children), they really only need to comply with their own stated privacy policies. The question is: will they?

Re: Facebook settles with FTC, under privacy watch for 20 years

#105

Post by click170 » Wed, Nov 30, 2011, 2:41 AM UTC

freehunter wrote: post #37

bad_user wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Shit, that sucks -- people are not yet aware of the damage the lack of online privacy can bring. And I fear that because of inertia, when the damages will become visible, then it will be too late.

I kind of wish the similar Google Buzz incident had gotten more press than it did. A boy who wasn't even in a balloon was on the news for days, but the case of a woman who was being harassed on Buzz by her abusive ex was lost in the public mind after a few minutes. Both the Buzz and Facebook cases were decided by the FTC very recently (the Buzz case was settled in October of this year). Perhaps we've reached a turnin…

I wonder.. Could that have been their plan from the beginning?

Re: Facebook settles with FTC, under privacy watch for 20 years

#106

Post by keenerd » Wed, Nov 30, 2011, 2:43 AM UTC

missing_cipher wrote: post #95

keenerd wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know Latin, but I can play around with google translate! Best I got was Noli loqui et non servant custodibus or "Watch your mouth instead of the watchmen". I guess this was a very complex way of disagreeing with you that "none of it matters".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quis_custodiet_ipsos_custodes%3... "Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? is a Latin phrase traditionally attributed to the Roman poet Juvenal from his Satires (Satire VI, lines 347–8), which is literally translated as "Who will guard the guards themselves?" Also sometimes rendered as "Who watches the watchmen?""

I dare say you missed the point. Were you replying to the wrong thread?

Re: Facebook settles with FTC, under privacy watch for 20 years

#107

Post by sunchild » Wed, Nov 30, 2011, 2:46 AM UTC

dreamdu5t wrote: post #35

jellicle wrote: post #15

So the penalty for ongoing repeated lies and fraud is.... nothing. Zero. The FTC has investigated, and the settlement is zero money and zero penalties. Not one dollar. Whew! I'm glad they were punished! They won't do THAT again! The U.S. is really in late-stage empire breakdown. I don't think there is any significant enforcement of any laws whatsoever against companies and people that are reasonably well connected. T…

Privacy policies are not binding agreements or contracts. Facebook didn't lie. They simply don't have to follow their privacy policy exactly, since it's not a binding agreement.

What you said is incorrect. They do need to follow their privacy policies. It is a legal requirement.

Your comment confuses basic contract legal principles with privacy rules. This isn't a contract matter; it's a matter of public policy.

You can get started learning why here: http://business.ftc.gov/legal-resources/29/35

Re: Facebook settles with FTC, under privacy watch for 20 years

#108

Post by sunchild » Wed, Nov 30, 2011, 2:48 AM UTC

brown9-2 wrote: post #2

Wow, this list is brutal: -In December 2009, Facebook changed its website so certain information that users may have designated as private – such as their Friends List – was made public. They didn't warn users that this change was coming, or get their approval in advance. - Facebook represented that third-party apps that users' installed would have access only to user information that they needed to operate. In fact,…

Whatever trouble Facebook has with the FTC, it will face roughly 300 million times that trouble in Europe, where the rules are much more strict, and the data protection authorities have much greater power to act on behalf of the general public and individual interests.

Re: Facebook settles with FTC, under privacy watch for 20 years

#109

Post by click170 » Wed, Nov 30, 2011, 2:51 AM UTC

brudgers wrote: post #103

johnnyg wrote: post #18

Many have posted to this thread with complaints that boil down to "this is a slap on the wrist because they are well connected". If you were the FTC, what would you do to Facebook in this case, how would it be supported in law and what long term change for the better would your action create? Privacy is a civil good but it is a fine line to walk indeed to punish an innovator during a recession. Where's the happy medi…

> "If you were the FTC, what would you do to Facebook" Or Google, Apple, Twitter, Microsoft, Adobe, and thousands of smaller companies who data mine user accounts and change terms of service every day. I used to have a subscription to The Economist . Recently I purchased an issue at Kroger. Two weeks later a special subscription offer appears in my mailbox - the first marketing material in they have sent in at least…

Data mining is one thing. Deceptive business practices and intentionally lying to your users is another.

Re: Facebook settles with FTC, under privacy watch for 20 years

#110

Post by click170 » Wed, Nov 30, 2011, 3:02 AM UTC

daed wrote: post #45

johnnyg wrote: post #18

Many have posted to this thread with complaints that boil down to "this is a slap on the wrist because they are well connected". If you were the FTC, what would you do to Facebook in this case, how would it be supported in law and what long term change for the better would your action create? Privacy is a civil good but it is a fine line to walk indeed to punish an innovator during a recession. Where's the happy medi…

It's likely that few HNers have a strong enough grasp of the various laws to state how they would pursue Facebook based on law, but all of us have a sense of justice. Whether or not the two coincide is a different discussion. My happy medium, based on my own sense of justice: give Facebook a year to implement systems that actually protect users' privacy (what that would entail is yet another discussion). If they don'…

Facebook has repeatedly demonstrated that it has no qualms about infringing on privacy, so I would suggest that further changes to Facebook's Privacy Policy be made opt-in only.

Opt-outs should be a privilege that is lost when you repeatedly and intentionally violate federal law.