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Germany's blanket data retention law is illegal, EU top court says

reuters.com

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Re: Germany's blanket data retention law is illegal, EU top court says

#101

Post by dang »

sva_ wrote: post #78

I posted this earlier: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32909698 I don't care about the points, just think it is a bit weird that a promotional commercial company post is now on the frontpage instead of a more neutral news site. Although now, Reuters would probably be the better source than what was available earlier today: https://www.reuters.com/technology/indiscriminate-data-reten...

Good point. We've changed the URL to the Reuters article now. Submitted URL was https://mailbox.org/en/post/european-court-of-justice-overtu.... Thanks!

Re: Germany's blanket data retention law is illegal, EU top court says

#102

Post by petre »

ajsnigrutin wrote: post #12
Semaphor wrote: post #3

Our data retention laws get overturned all the time. Usually already by our constitutional courts. Sadly our politicians don’t care much and don’t get punished, so they just try it again and again and again and usually it’s in effect for a while before the courts give judgement. I really can’t explain where Politikverdrossenheit (political apathy) comes from. edit: The last sentence is sarcasm

> I really can’t explain where Politikverdrossenheit (political apathy) comes from. I understand... it's simple... someone does something bad, nothing happens to them... bad thing again... nothing happens... people protest... nothing happens... bad thing again.. nothing happens... If this was some other timeline, and people brought guillotines out every couple of years and "dealt with" the "bad" politicians in "the f…

This only happens in France but without guillotines: strikes + yellow gillet protests. The Germans are too well behaved to do anything or the political process is much too civilised to employ any form of civil disobedience.

Re: Germany's blanket data retention law is illegal, EU top court says

#103

Post by omgomgomgomg »

Yet another time Germany needs external intervention measures to get in line.

Time and time again, history has proven everywhere that if the population does not keep their politicians in line, they will get drunk from all the power.The people do not even vote reasonably, so it is very difficult.

Have these lawmakers ever presented good results which can be attributed to their work?

Re: Germany's blanket data retention law is illegal, EU top court says

#104

Post by kevin_thibedeau »

whimsicalism wrote: post #60
themitigating wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Political apathy comes from the political party that would most benefit from low turnout. If you are disappointed with politics that is a reason to vote. If you don't care, that's a valid reason not to vote

Is there not a limit case? Would you tell people in China, "if you are disappointed with politics, vote in your People's Congress elections?"

CCP members theoretically have more agency than just voting. Every one of them can advance issues at the peoples congress.

Re: Germany's blanket data retention law is illegal, EU top court says

#105

Post by nielsole »

joker99 wrote: post #85
Etheryte wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Out of curiosity, doesn't Germany have the equivalent of a constitutional watchdog? For example in Estonia, the president fills this role (as do some other constitutions, but the president is a good example in this context). The president is otherwise a purely ceremonial figurehead in Estonia, but one functional role they fill is that before any new bill becomes law, they have to sign off on it and declare it's const…

We do, pretty much the same as your situation. However, it doesn't happen very often that the Bundespräsident actually does this. Their role is almost purely ceremonial and I could count the cases on one hand where they used this power. Some legal professionals argue, that this check is basically a ceremonial one as well.

https://www.sueddeutsche.de/politik/hintergrund-bundespraesi...

A list of seven rejected laws. I think there was one more in the last decade.

Re: Germany's blanket data retention law is illegal, EU top court says

#106

Post by pelasaco »

Semaphor wrote: post #3

Our data retention laws get overturned all the time. Usually already by our constitutional courts. Sadly our politicians don’t care much and don’t get punished, so they just try it again and again and again and usually it’s in effect for a while before the courts give judgement. I really can’t explain where Politikverdrossenheit (political apathy) comes from. edit: The last sentence is sarcasm

Me as german citizen would be interested to know how much such processes costs from our taxes money. From bringing such law again to debate, convicting the parlament to vote it, then approving it, then the whole courts costs... I'm not sure why at least once a year we see that there.. regardless of who is in the government.. Is it Lobby driven?

Re: Germany's blanket data retention law is illegal, EU top court says

#107

Post by kccqzy »

Semaphor wrote: post #67
hok wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact that a court overturns a law is proof that our democracy actually works. No need to be 'verdrossen'. It would be worse if the courts just approves all laws the government conceives.

The issue is, that the process to overturn a law takes years, but introducing the same law (with a slightly different paint) again takes months. Or for some reductio ad absurdum: Slavery is legal for 10 months per year, but every October the Slavery Legalization law gets struck down by the courts, proof that our democracy works.

Why does it take so long though? In the United States courts often issue a preliminary injunction or temporary restraining order to stop the enforcement of law. This way the courts can take their time in deciding a case while the new law does not get enforced.

Re: Germany's blanket data retention law is illegal, EU top court says

#108

Post by therealmarv »

hold on, what Germany wanted to do (blanket data retention) is a reality for a long time in other states in EU. There are many countries collecting for 6+ months all connection data (e.g. France or Spain). A map is in this German article from 2019

https://netzpolitik.org/2019/vorratsdatenspeicherung-in-euro...

So this becomes illegal in other EU member states now too? Does anybody have any inside how this will change EU data retention in general?

Re: Germany's blanket data retention law is illegal, EU top court says

#109

Post by int_19h »

tarakat wrote: post #76
dagw wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ECJ can only rule on EU laws. So as such they are not overturning any German laws, just stating the the German law is not in compliance with EU regulations. What that means in practice varies a lot from case to case, but in general the EU has the power to fine members that are in breach of EU regulations. For practical reasons most EU countries want to be in compliance with EU law and will often follow ECJ recommenda…

We've seen where this leads to in the US, where the federal government financially extorts states to fall in line on issues that are supposed to be up to the states, such as what happened with speed limits: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speed_limits_in_the_United_Sta...

The difference is that EU member states have the right to leave if they don't think the arrangement benefits them.

Re: Germany's blanket data retention law is illegal, EU top court says

#110

Post by int_19h »

There's a curious comment on that article from a person in support of that retention law:

"Google can do that [blanket data collection], my Chinese mobile phone manufacturer too, why shouldn't the government be able to do it?"

Something to ponder when we talk about data collection by private parties: like it or not, it does provide justification for governments doing the same.

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