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Cheating at chess with a computer for my shoes

incoherency.co.uk

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Re: Cheating at chess with a computer for my shoes

#101

Post by tzs »

avip wrote: post #8
sharedfrog wrote: post #3

This is relevant to today's events because Magnus Carlsen just withdrew from a tournament[1] after yesterday's loss to a significantly lower rated opponent who had previously been suspended for cheating on chess.com. The tournament organizers have also implemented additional anti-cheating protocols starting today. Whatever comes out of these accusations, the chess world will sure enjoy its new infusion of drama. [1]…

This makes little sense no? With 200 ELO diff Hans should beat Magnus ~1/4 games.

That was the result of the four games they played at the FTX Crypto Cup in Miami about 3 weeks ago.

Hans, playing back, crushed Magnus in their first game. Then afterwards when an interviewer tried to interview him about the game he just said "The chess speaks for itself" and walked away.

A lot of commentators interpreted that as a bit of trash talk about Magnus, who convincingly won the remaining 3 games.

Re: Cheating at chess with a computer for my shoes

#102

Post by ivalm »

searealist wrote: post #86
threatofrain wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, the accusation is that the sum of signals doesn't look good.

It's binary. Either he did cheat today or he did not. If he did not then who cares what his post analysis looks like after drawing the #4 player in the world and being +3 at some point. The only reasonable analysis is to declare him a cheater today or discard the interview. To say that the interview would point to him cheating vs Magnus but not today is nonsense.

You can always say 40% cheater, 60% non cheater in this one game, but this updates the priors for future game considerations. At some point the priors will be such that the belief in the risk of cheating (which needs not be more than 50%) will cause the player to not be invited.

Re: Cheating at chess with a computer for my shoes

#104

Post by bumbledraven »

sharedfrog wrote: post #3

This is relevant to today's events because Magnus Carlsen just withdrew from a tournament[1] after yesterday's loss to a significantly lower rated opponent who had previously been suspended for cheating on chess.com. The tournament organizers have also implemented additional anti-cheating protocols starting today. Whatever comes out of these accusations, the chess world will sure enjoy its new infusion of drama. [1]…

Maybe Ken Regan will investigate.

HOW TO CATCH A CHESS CHEATER Ken Regan Finds Moves Out of Mind Chess Life, June 2014 https://cse.buffalo.edu/~regan/personal/JuneCLarticleKWR.pdf

Re: Cheating at chess with a computer for my shoes

#105

Post by cypress66 »

ziddoap wrote: post #28
Animats wrote: post #10

Computer-assisted chess cheating has been going on for over a decade now.[1] It's getting to be embarrassing for humans, that small battery powered devices now win against strong players. At world championship level, at least you still need a laptop. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheating_in_chess#High-profile

Why would it be embarrassing? Does the size of the device really make it more or less embarrassing? If anything, I think it's pretty awesome that a small battery powered device -- designed and programmed by humans -- can excel at games like chess.

Exactly. Is it embarrassing that a hammer is better than our fists?

Re: Cheating at chess with a computer for my shoes

#106

Post by weare138 »

Neat. Reminds me of the hidden shoe computers developed by Claude Shannon and Ed Thorp in 1960 for cheating at roulette.

https://nautil.us/claude-shannon-the-las-vegas-cheat-6397

J. Doyne Farmer and Norman Packard from UC Santa Cruz also developed one in the late 70s as part of a group called The Eudaemons.

http://physics.ucsc.edu/people/eudaemons/layout.html

Re: Cheating at chess with a computer for my shoes

#107

Post by epigramx »

sharedfrog wrote: post #3

This is relevant to today's events because Magnus Carlsen just withdrew from a tournament[1] after yesterday's loss to a significantly lower rated opponent who had previously been suspended for cheating on chess.com. The tournament organizers have also implemented additional anti-cheating protocols starting today. Whatever comes out of these accusations, the chess world will sure enjoy its new infusion of drama. [1]…

I'm not sure why wasn't that blatantly obvious until today. Chess is an extremely unsuitable sport for online because you are 100% free to use the strongest computers on it without 100% no cheat protection at all. It should be ..100% restricted to person-to-person tournaments for keeping score.

Re: Cheating at chess with a computer for my shoes

#108

Post by [deleted] »

grumpopotamus wrote: post #40
fasthands9 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know very little about chess. Do computers play like top humans? Or different stylistically? ie - if you were a top player and looking at the moves of an opponent, could you discern if the style was more similar to a top rated human or a top rated computer?

The top chess engines are now much much stronger than humans, and they will find some moves that grandmasters are unlikely to even consider. One recent example was Kf8 in the recent Patrycja Waszczuk cheating scandal: https://www.chess.com/news/view/patrycja-waszczuk-cheating-2... . I watched Hikaru Nakamura analyze the game on stream and he burst out laughing when he saw the infamous Kf8 move, since it was such a bi…

[deleted]

Re: Cheating at chess with a computer for my shoes

#109

Post by pk2200 »

epigramx wrote: post #107
sharedfrog wrote: post #3

This is relevant to today's events because Magnus Carlsen just withdrew from a tournament[1] after yesterday's loss to a significantly lower rated opponent who had previously been suspended for cheating on chess.com. The tournament organizers have also implemented additional anti-cheating protocols starting today. Whatever comes out of these accusations, the chess world will sure enjoy its new infusion of drama. [1]…

I'm not sure why wasn't that blatantly obvious until today. Chess is an extremely unsuitable sport for online because you are 100% free to use the strongest computers on it without 100% no cheat protection at all. It should be ..100% restricted to person-to-person tournaments for keeping score.

The tournament Carlsen withdrew from today isn't an online event. All the games are played in person at the St. Louis Chess Club.

Re: Cheating at chess with a computer for my shoes

#110

Post by andy-eye-candy »

ManWith2Plans wrote: post #97
icelancer wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow, somehow I missed this. Pretty wild accusations from Magnus and Hikaru on this. Hans just had a horrific tournament in his last attempt, which makes this whole thing pretty interesting. Hans didn't play engine perfect lines when beating Magnus in the Sinquefield Cup, though he obviously played extremely accurately.

Do you have a source of Magnus accusations? He seems to have withdrawn relatively quietly, perhaps consciously trying to refrain from cheating accusations. Hikaru was less reserved on the other hand. He called Hans's post-game interview analysis sub-2700 level after Hans Neiman badly mis-evaluated several positions.

His tweet included a video of a famous interview with Jose Mourinho saying “if I speak I am in big trouble”
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