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Toyota patents plans for EV with manual transmission and clutch

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Re: Toyota patents plans for EV with manual transmission and clutch

#101

Post by falcolas »

robryk wrote: post #88
nabilhat wrote: post #62

This is a neat example though of how arbitrary EV drivetrains are. A Toyota marketing exec's (just guessing) FUD about imagined consumer FUD turns into, why don't we just ramp down torque in notches in relation to road speed increments? Of course anyone who buys this is going to try it once then leave it in all-the-torque-all-the-time mode, but that's not the point. I can't say I've met a single three pedal afficiona…

In snowy conditions you don't actually want all the torque available: then you'd want to control the torque applied instead of the power delivered when starting to move (similar to placing a restriction on the top torque by shifting into second gear on manual shift cars).

Agreed, and I’d go so far to say you don’t want all the torque on anything but a clean racetrack. Rain, oil, gravel, animal carcasses… there’s plenty of road conditions where a lead foot plus extreme torque will carry you violently off the road.

Re: Toyota patents plans for EV with manual transmission and clutch

#102

Post by superchroma »

kQq9oHeAz6wLLS wrote: post #81
superchroma wrote: post #20

I can't decide whether this is dumber than Dodge making a huge deal about how their new EV Dodge Charger (car not car-charger, oh my god, what a branding screw up) makes authentic loud V8 noises, but they're definitely both stupid. Can we just fast forward to the future where EVs glide around silently and people look both ways before crossing the road?

> EV Dodge Charger (car not car-charger, oh my god, what a branding screw up) To be fair, the Charger name was created long before it meant "thing you use to plug into an electric device", and the Charger is a very popular vehicle in the Dodge lineup. And you don't abandon popular models without generating negative PR. So Dodge didn't really have a choice. Plus, they can use the pun in witty commercials.

I know, they could have chosen the Dart or stuck with the Challenger. Or, wild idea, go for the Coronet, Plymouth Cuda, Roadrunner or GTX. I guess they're going to go with the joke, anyway.

Re: Toyota patents plans for EV with manual transmission and clutch

#103

Post by falcolas »

trasz wrote: post #82
lm28469 wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Can we just fast forward to the future where EVs glide around silently and people look both ways before crossing the road? Getting rid of 50% of your car detecting senses doesn't seem like a good idea

Is this still a problem now that we have auto braking?

A human walking has a much shorter stopping distance than any vehicle out there.

Re: Toyota patents plans for EV with manual transmission and clutch

#104

Post by qikInNdOutReply »

gpt5 wrote: post #77
nabilhat wrote: post #62

This is a neat example though of how arbitrary EV drivetrains are. A Toyota marketing exec's (just guessing) FUD about imagined consumer FUD turns into, why don't we just ramp down torque in notches in relation to road speed increments? Of course anyone who buys this is going to try it once then leave it in all-the-torque-all-the-time mode, but that's not the point. I can't say I've met a single three pedal afficiona…

The counter argument is that European vehicles are vastly using manual gear, despite the fact that except for a small minority, no one cares about the potential difference in torque. There is just a lot of people that are used the a certain solution and are resistant to change.

The actual reason for having gears even with EVs in european vehicles, is mostly the "one plattform" approach which carmakers here afraid to go all in on EVs. Hybrids, traditional combustion and EVs are expected to share as many parts as possible - which of course as all engineering compromises go means you become 2nd best in all areas.

Re: Toyota patents plans for EV with manual transmission and clutch

#105

Post by ReactiveJelly »

falcolas wrote: post #101
robryk wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In snowy conditions you don't actually want all the torque available: then you'd want to control the torque applied instead of the power delivered when starting to move (similar to placing a restriction on the top torque by shifting into second gear on manual shift cars).

Agreed, and I’d go so far to say you don’t want all the torque on anything but a clean racetrack. Rain, oil, gravel, animal carcasses… there’s plenty of road conditions where a lead foot plus extreme torque will carry you violently off the road.

And it might be a good trade-off to pair a motor with a peaky torque curve with a 2-speed or 3-speed gearbox.

But if your _only_ goal is to limit torque, you could simulate that by re-mapping the pedal.

Say, by hitting "Eco" mode on a Prius.

Re: Toyota patents plans for EV with manual transmission and clutch

#106

Post by kaitai »

robryk wrote: post #88
nabilhat wrote: post #62

This is a neat example though of how arbitrary EV drivetrains are. A Toyota marketing exec's (just guessing) FUD about imagined consumer FUD turns into, why don't we just ramp down torque in notches in relation to road speed increments? Of course anyone who buys this is going to try it once then leave it in all-the-torque-all-the-time mode, but that's not the point. I can't say I've met a single three pedal afficiona…

In snowy conditions you don't actually want all the torque available: then you'd want to control the torque applied instead of the power delivered when starting to move (similar to placing a restriction on the top torque by shifting into second gear on manual shift cars).

That's why I stick with a manual transmission -- far better handling in snow. Have not asked my EV peers how it's working for them.

Re: Toyota patents plans for EV with manual transmission and clutch

#107

Post by icoder »

yywwbbn wrote: post #86
spellboots wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are economic and regulatory factors involved, it is more complex than people being resistant to change which no doubt makes up part of it. In the UK, for example, automatic cars are more expensive to buy and insure [1]. They also tend to be more expensive to learn how to drive as instructors mostly have manual cars to teach with. This incentivises new drivers towards manual cars, especially as younger drivers a…

I find it hard to imagine it would take significantly more than 15 minutes for most people to ‘learn’ how to drive an automatic car even if they only drove a manual before.

I'm not saying it's hard (I had to, given the automatic rental when visiting the US), but it's not just about learning how to do it, it's also about reflexes, which you don't unlearn in 15 minutes. Sure you can learn to consciously suppress them, but the habit of finding a pedal with your left foot when accelerating/decelerating lures behind it for a lot longer.

Re: Toyota patents plans for EV with manual transmission and clutch

#108

Post by detaro »

qikInNdOutReply wrote: post #104
gpt5 wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The counter argument is that European vehicles are vastly using manual gear, despite the fact that except for a small minority, no one cares about the potential difference in torque. There is just a lot of people that are used the a certain solution and are resistant to change.

The actual reason for having gears even with EVs in european vehicles, is mostly the "one plattform" approach which carmakers here afraid to go all in on EVs. Hybrids, traditional combustion and EVs are expected to share as many parts as possible - which of course as all engineering compromises go means you become 2nd best in all areas.

Any examples of cars where that's the case?

Re: Toyota patents plans for EV with manual transmission and clutch

#109

Post by bryanlarsen »

badcppdev wrote: post #50
lm28469 wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Can we just fast forward to the future where EVs glide around silently and people look both ways before crossing the road? Getting rid of 50% of your car detecting senses doesn't seem like a good idea

Or imagine if you're blind. Trying to listen for tire noise.

An EV going faster than 15mph is quite audible and one going slower than that can stop on a dime. If you can't hear anything it should be safe to cross.

There's a significant gap between theory and reality, but I'm not sure noise pollution is the answer.

Re: Toyota patents plans for EV with manual transmission and clutch

#110

Post by detaro »

gpt5 wrote: post #77
nabilhat wrote: post #62

This is a neat example though of how arbitrary EV drivetrains are. A Toyota marketing exec's (just guessing) FUD about imagined consumer FUD turns into, why don't we just ramp down torque in notches in relation to road speed increments? Of course anyone who buys this is going to try it once then leave it in all-the-torque-all-the-time mode, but that's not the point. I can't say I've met a single three pedal afficiona…

The counter argument is that European vehicles are vastly using manual gear, despite the fact that except for a small minority, no one cares about the potential difference in torque. There is just a lot of people that are used the a certain solution and are resistant to change.

For new cars that's not true anymore.
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