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Psychedelic drugs take on depression

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Re: Psychedelic drugs take on depression

#101

Post by Litost »

arcticbull wrote: post #71
esperent wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No doubt, but that applies to all depression treatments. Most of which have a far higher risk of side effects, and many of which take weeks or months to show an effect if they do work. Ketamine treatment takes an hour, with virtually no chance of side effects, and you'll know if it works within a few hours. Even if it only works for a tiny percentage of depression sufferers, it should be first line treatment. As it i…

Not just that it's important to remember that many studies have questioned whether antidepressants are at all better than placebo for the treatment of depression in the first place. [1] Some say no, some say yes statistically significant but not meaningful clinically. [2] The reality is psychedelics may be the only meaningful medical treatment we actually have for depression. [1] https://www.webmd.com/mental-health/n…

It's great to see psychedelics being considered more and more for tackling mental health conditions, but I'd still like to see the discussion extended to include:

a) Other ways of achieving peak experiences and senses of connectedness, wonder and awe, be that mindfulness/meditation, being out in nature, flow states, breathwork etc. which are more often accessible to everyone, for free and without needing to involve big pharma and may have less side effects, supported where necessary with the same complimentary (talking) therapies that run alongside the psychedelics.

b) Challenging some of the potential underlying causes, I'm not suggesting this will apply in all cases, but stress/burn-out, financial pressures, lack of meaning, lack of connectedness, pressure from social media, inequality etc.

Re: Psychedelic drugs take on depression

#102

Post by bookofjoe »

FollowingTheDao wrote: post #93
swatcoder wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I admire your concern for people, but you might be getting a little bit ahead of the data when you start imagining others getting obsessed and develop your own fears for their sake. But I’d also mention, as a fellow student of balance, that it can be found amidst great highs and lows and not just in the absence of them. Acrobats exhibit tremendous balance. :)

Whatever I’m just a homeless schizaffective bipolar fuck who actually thinking about killing himself right now so who cares.

988 Suicide & Crisis Lifeline

We can all help prevent suicide. The Lifeline provides 24/7, free and confidential support for people in distress, prevention and crisis resources for you or your loved ones, and best practices for professionals in the United States.

https://988lifeline.org/

Re: Psychedelic drugs take on depression

#103

Post by bckr »

Bakary wrote: post #18
kornhole wrote: post #10

Psychedelics are illegal not because they create hallucinations but rather because they help break down the hallucinations we have about the world. In the land of the blind, the one eyed man is a hallucinating idiot.

If that were true, we would likely see a greater variety of discourse and testimonies from people who use hallucinogens. On the contrary, they tend to sound surprisingly similar in terms of world-view to each other. Once you experience hallucinogens yourself, it becomes pretty clear why that might be. The obvious conclusion is, of course, that hallucinogens unlock an objective, common reality. That's not what the dep…

This comment seems to contradict itself. Can you clarify your position?

Re: Psychedelic drugs take on depression

#104

Post by FollowingTheDao »

bookofjoe wrote: post #102
FollowingTheDao wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whatever I’m just a homeless schizaffective bipolar fuck who actually thinking about killing himself right now so who cares.

988 Suicide & Crisis Lifeline We can all help prevent suicide. The Lifeline provides 24/7, free and confidential support for people in distress, prevention and crisis resources for you or your loved ones, and best practices for professionals in the United States. https://988lifeline.org/

Thanks. Better now. Took a bunch of klonopin, managed to talk to a friend who is a therapist.

Re: Psychedelic drugs take on depression

#105

Post by politician »

paskozdilar wrote: post #97
politician wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Parenting is hard.

I figure it's easier when your main goal is raising your child as a life-loving person, instead of a good Catholic.

There's lots of ways that crafting a moral compass around being a "life-loving person" can go wrong too.

It's a hard problem.

Re: Psychedelic drugs take on depression

#106

Post by bheadmaster »

politician wrote: post #105
paskozdilar wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I figure it's easier when your main goal is raising your child as a life-loving person, instead of a good Catholic.

There's lots of ways that crafting a moral compass around being a "life-loving person" can go wrong too. It's a hard problem.

You can say that about any kind of life philosophy.

However, children are born as life-loving creatures. It seems reasonable that it's easier to keep them that way while teaching them how to function in this world, than to force onto them rigid unnatural habits (for example, many Christians consider sexuality a bad thing, and teach their children to be ashamed of their sexuality, except in this very special case of being married to someone; or they take the "respect your parents" command too seriously, effectively ridding their child of all rights to any kind of personal integrity - "I am your parent, you shall respect me, no matter what I do"), which lead to frustration of the child, which leads to resistance, which leads to frustration of parents, which leads to general unhappiness and mistrust.

But even if we completely disregard the complexity of raising children - Christianity is, in its essence, a suffering fetish. The symbol of Christianity is a man suffering on a cross. I do not believe that that kind of imagery doesn't have harmful effects on young children.

Re: Psychedelic drugs take on depression

#107

Post by politician »

bheadmaster wrote: post #106
politician wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's lots of ways that crafting a moral compass around being a "life-loving person" can go wrong too. It's a hard problem.

You can say that about any kind of life philosophy. However, children are born as life-loving creatures. It seems reasonable that it's easier to keep them that way while teaching them how to function in this world, than to force onto them rigid unnatural habits (for example, many Christians consider sexuality a bad thing, and teach their children to be ashamed of their sexuality, except in this very special case of b…

I understand that you have a specific problem with Christians. However, you should be aware that your examples aren’t just wrong but more like caricatures of what’s actually in the Bible.

The TLDR on the Bible is John 3:16-21. You’ve probably heard the first sentence, but I encourage you to read the full paragraph and then compare it with the characterization you shared here.

Re: Psychedelic drugs take on depression

#108

Post by bheadmaster »

politician wrote: post #107
bheadmaster wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can say that about any kind of life philosophy. However, children are born as life-loving creatures. It seems reasonable that it's easier to keep them that way while teaching them how to function in this world, than to force onto them rigid unnatural habits (for example, many Christians consider sexuality a bad thing, and teach their children to be ashamed of their sexuality, except in this very special case of b…

I understand that you have a specific problem with Christians. However, you should be aware that your examples aren’t just wrong but more like caricatures of what’s actually in the Bible. The TLDR on the Bible is John 3:16-21. You’ve probably heard the first sentence, but I encourage you to read the full paragraph and then compare it with the characterization you shared here.

> However, you should be aware that your examples aren’t just wrong

I've personally witnessed every single thing I've written, so they can't be completely wrong. I was also raised in a Christian family, in a Christian neighborhood, so I'm pretty sure that what I've observed is at the very least plausible.

> The TLDR on the Bible is John 3:16-21.

You should note that Bible is huge, full of contradictions and open to interpretation. You should also note that many Christians have never even read the Bible, and don't follow it to the word, but rather follow the culture of their peers, which is usually focused on observable behaviors (don't eat X, don't work on Y, don't do Z, etc.), rather than deeper, more complex points (love thy neighbor as you love yourself, turn the other cheek, who is without sin - throw the first stone, etc.).

Note that (except for the "suffering fetish" comment) I'm not even trying to tackle the Bible or Christianity as a philosophy here. I'm talking strictly about the sociological aspects of religion.

Re: Psychedelic drugs take on depression

#109

Post by politician »

bheadmaster wrote: post #108
politician wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I understand that you have a specific problem with Christians. However, you should be aware that your examples aren’t just wrong but more like caricatures of what’s actually in the Bible. The TLDR on the Bible is John 3:16-21. You’ve probably heard the first sentence, but I encourage you to read the full paragraph and then compare it with the characterization you shared here.

> However, you should be aware that your examples aren’t just wrong I've personally witnessed every single thing I've written, so they can't be completely wrong. I was also raised in a Christian family, in a Christian neighborhood, so I'm pretty sure that what I've observed is at the very least plausible . > The TLDR on the Bible is John 3:16-21. You should note that Bible is huge , full of contradictions and open to…

“I’m talking strictly about the sociological aspects...”

Life is hard. Individuals consistently fail to act with everyone’s best interests in mind. This is true of all people and all groups of people at all scales.

The offensive thing about Christians is that they’re a people that have acknowledged that they aren’t behaving appropriately in the first place and have come to the conclusion that they want to behave accordingly to the standard set in the Bible. It’s completely understandable that when they don’t live up to that standard that others are put off.

When everyone is out there living their own truth, it can be offensive to learn about a group of people who reject the idea of their own truth and put their trust in the God of the Bible. It’s especially understandable that folks are quick to judge them for their hypocrisy when they fail to live up to that standard.

Re: Psychedelic drugs take on depression

#110

Post by bheadmaster »

politician wrote: post #109
bheadmaster wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> However, you should be aware that your examples aren’t just wrong I've personally witnessed every single thing I've written, so they can't be completely wrong. I was also raised in a Christian family, in a Christian neighborhood, so I'm pretty sure that what I've observed is at the very least plausible . > The TLDR on the Bible is John 3:16-21. You should note that Bible is huge , full of contradictions and open to…

“I’m talking strictly about the sociological aspects...” Life is hard. Individuals consistently fail to act with everyone’s best interests in mind. This is true of all people and all groups of people at all scales. The offensive thing about Christians is that they’re a people that have acknowledged that they aren’t behaving appropriately in the first place and have come to the conclusion that they want to behave acco…

> Life is hard. Individuals consistently fail to act with everyone’s best interests in mind.

Yes, but Christianity gives people the excuse not to question their core beliefs - they just confess, repent, blame it all on Satan and carry on with business as usual.

> The offensive thing about Christians is that they’re a people that have acknowledged that they aren’t behaving appropriately in the first place and have come to the conclusion that they want to behave accordingly to the standard set in the Bible

The offensive thing about Christians is that they are constantly trying to impose rules from the Bible upon other people (e.g. abortion laws in southern US).

> When everyone is out there living their own truth, it can be offensive to learn about a group of people who reject the idea of their own truth and put their trust in the God of the Bible.

In other words, Christians consider themselves eternally right, and everyone else eternally wrong, no matter what evidence is provided.

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