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Why Does the U.S. Have the Best Research Universities? (2020)

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Re: Why Does the U.S. Have the Best Research Universities? (2020)

#101

Post by systemvoltage »

csa wrote: post #100
systemvoltage wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You seem to have read the details of the case, yet you say that Asian Americans are fighting for equality by citing a case that has determined at the lower level and appellate court that no systemic discrimination occurred. "Students for Fair Admissions, Inc. v. President and Fellows of Harvard College (Docket 20–1199) and Students for Fair Admissions, Inc. v. University of North Carolina (Docket 21-707) are a pair…

> It is though. It is alleging racial discrimination. It is literally the first line on Wikipedia. It is an allegation that has been determined twice by courts not to hold water. People can allege anything, and they often do for political or pr reasons (politics being the real reason for this case, imho). > Not sure what is the cause for your defensiveness I have lived in Asian for 9 years of my profession life, and…

> It is an allegation that has been determined twice by courts not to hold water.

That describes vast majority of SCOTUS cases. Not surprising. That's kind of how cases reach SCOTUS (except in rare occasions when SCOTUS grants writs of certiorari to a district court case).

Re: Why Does the U.S. Have the Best Research Universities? (2020)

#102

Post by t_mann »

silvestrov wrote: post #34
abadger9 wrote: post #28

I've wished at least 2 dozen times over the last decade that the nordics had better research universities. I spent a portion of my life in Finland and the quality of life is so much better there, I would say it's probably unattainable here (the reduced crime, the affordability of everything, lack of homelessness, a more well educated population, etc.). Unfortunately the research being done at the top universities the…

Problem in Denmark is that every small town wants their own university. You can't have 5 research universities in a country of 5 million people.

> You can't have 5 research universities in a country of 5 million people.

Really? I'm counting at least 7 research universities (ranked https://www.google.com/search?q=switzerland+population

https://www.usnews.com/education/best-global-universities/sw...

https://www.shanghairanking.com/rankings/arwu/2022

Re: Why Does the U.S. Have the Best Research Universities? (2020)

#103

Post by beckman466 »

"a set of intellectual property rights [is] explicitly designed to favour corporations. This system — the flip side of globalisation — is propagated by various trade agreements and global institutions at the behest of the nation states who benefit from it the most. It’s no accident that Silicon Valley is a uniquely American phenomenon; not only does it owe its success to the United States’ exceptionally high defence spending — the source of its research funding and foundational technological breakthroughs — that very military might is itself what implicitly secures the intellectual property regime."

Re: Why Does the U.S. Have the Best Research Universities? (2020)

#104

Post by systemvoltage »

asabjorn wrote: post #90
inglor_cz wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your comment is unpopular, judging from the downvotes, but it is still thoughtful and should be debated, not simply downvoted. But you are touching topics that come close to religious faith for some folks, and in an irreverent way.

Marxism actually is a theology and by proxy wokeness as well, so it is not surprising you get religious zealots. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fqj-MKG9SnU&t=1s

I wish more people in the tech spoke up against DIE. Corporations are acting as a proxy of Government policies that do not pass the muster of legislative process. It is seems like either 1) Everyone is brainwashed by the woke religion or 2) People know it is malicious but don't have the courage to speak up.

Of all the people, I would expect technologists to have a very straight forward, rational and objectivist perspective, but I am realizing that it might not be the case.

Re: Why Does the U.S. Have the Best Research Universities? (2020)

#105

Post by dataflow »

asabjorn wrote: post #99
dataflow wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Are you saying you are concerned about No, I haven't said anything about my concerns nor did I intend to. > DIE is also implemented all over the government That would make for a better argument with some examples, instead of pointing to universities and private institutions etc. > Are you saying that getting a high-status private education, eg. harvard or yale, or a high power private company role has no influence…

I think I am a bit confused then. We were discussing meritocracy. Are you claiming affirmative action or DEI has no effect on meritocracy? Or that meritocracy in your opinion shouldn't be a consideration? > That would make for a better argument with some examples, instead of pointing to universities and private institutions etc. Why do you think public universities and schools are not government? They are under polit…

> Are you saying that you think DIE is justified in government, universities and private institutions? Trying to understand your position here

Sorry, as I mentioned, it's not my intention to state my position on DIE here.

> Why do you think public universities and schools are not government? They are under political founding, oversight, funding, and control so that doesn't make sense to me.

You're binarizing things that aren't binary. It depends a lot on what you're talking about. e.g., K-12 and graduate school are not the same in this regard, and different universities/states are different. Public universities have quite a bit of independence from the government and politics; sometimes this is even literally written in the state constitutions. Moreover, institutions have lots of different funding sources. You can't just point at "the government is funding this therefore this is the government". The actual influence the government exerts on an entity compared to all the other influences on that entity is a huge factor here.

> What is the correct criterion in your opinion?

The influence has to be "large", for some sensible definition of large. That definition should probably compare the influence with other sources of influence somehow.

And if you're making a sweeping statement about the whole country, the criterion should probably include something that applies to a large chunk of the relevant institutions in the country.

Re: Why Does the U.S. Have the Best Research Universities? (2020)

#106

Post by mrguyorama »

dr_dshiv wrote: post #64
dcolkitt wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These are all good points. But what's interesting is that very similar things could also be said about the US healthcare system . And yet unlike American universities, it's not clear that American hospitals or healthcare is worldclass.

Really? Few would argue that America has the best healthcare system but the healthcare, hospitals and medical education are, perhaps, unsurpassed.

If that world class healthcare is only accessible to a small percentage of americans, does america really have world class healthcare?

Re: Why Does the U.S. Have the Best Research Universities? (2020)

#107

Post by juve1996 »

streptomycin wrote: post #79
juve1996 wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does "get the most money" equate to "has the most money?"

Not sure what the difference is. But it does seem that no matter how much money you throw at a problem with no measurable impact, there will always be people claiming just a little bit more is needed because this time something will be different and it won't be squandered.

We have very clear evidence money solves a lot of problems. Why doesn't it work here? It works everywhere else in our capitalist economy.

In any case the difference is quite clear. If a school in a rich suburb doesn't get much federal money than, say, a inner city school, that gets a lot. That rich suburb already has money. They obviously wouldn't get further funding - but are likely much richer?

Re: Why Does the U.S. Have the Best Research Universities? (2020)

#108

Post by mrguyorama »

streptomycin wrote: post #79
juve1996 wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does "get the most money" equate to "has the most money?"

Not sure what the difference is. But it does seem that no matter how much money you throw at a problem with no measurable impact, there will always be people claiming just a little bit more is needed because this time something will be different and it won't be squandered.

How much of that "money thrown at the problem" is actually used to pay teachers more and attract competent teaching talent and give the teachers proper resources they don't have to buy with their own money and providing needy students the help they need to succeed?

I already know the answer, because many in my family are lifelong teachers. All money goes to facilities that don't always need it, though are still good investments, and administration.

The current process sure works well to say "well we keep throwing money at it and nothing improves" as if you can LITERALLY just throw money in the general direction of the problem and see an improvement. As long as those prioritizing funds and resources continue to just ignore teachers wholesale, we will see no improvement in education.

Re: Why Does the U.S. Have the Best Research Universities? (2020)

#110

Post by f154hfds »

anon291 wrote: post #98

I'll say something few will mention... but lack of a safety net is a large factor in why the US has the best research universities, and well -- the best everything [1] Simply put the fact that you can slip to a pretty low bottom in the US (as opposed to the guaranteed safety net in some other countries) motivates those individuals capable of high achievement to produce the best research. This is why the US has basica…

I don't know why no one disagreeing with you will engage. Human ingenuity is forged in fire. You don't build muscle without discomfort. You can't have children without sacrifice. I personally don't think the lack of a welfare state is a huge factor in American universities (I tend to think immigration is a much bigger factor), partially because the US has a huge safety net and every year it grows [1].

Philosophically this is a tough one: take away the welfare state and you remove the floor of human suffering. Add the welfare state and you remove the drive to succeed (from most individuals, there will always be some who disregard all contrary incentives).

[1] https://www.wsj.com/articles/biden-to-announce-student-loan-...

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