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EPB launches America’s first community-wide 25 gig internet service

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Re: EPB launches America’s first community-wide 25 gig internet service

#101
I recently upgraded to 1.5gbps and realized a few things.

The downsides: the Cat5e cables inside my condo walls can't handle more than 1.0gbps; my desktop's network port also maxes out at 1.0gbps; the wifi router in my home can't do more than 600mbps even if standing right next to it.

But also, nothing I do needs this much bandwidth. I can download any steam game in the blink of an eye. I can watch streaming video at resolutions higher than my eyes can distinguish. Outside of a few high bandwidth edge cases, there's very little I need more than 100mbps for.

If you offered me 25gbps internet right now I wouldn't be able to tell the difference between it and what I have!

Someone tell me: what will I need that much bandwidth for?

Re: EPB launches America’s first community-wide 25 gig internet service

#102
post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Meanwhile I have traffic-shaped Comcast and no fiber in sight in Silicon Valley. Isn't the SF bay area more of a geography issue than an incumbent monopoly issue? I'm sure its a mixture of both, but also a geography issue.

It's a five minute bike ride on flat land from Google HQ (mostly along utility right of way) to housing with Drive 10-20 miles, and you'll be in areas where AT&T decided to sell the lines to a bankrupt telco. Looking at the lines in those areas is entertaining. The telephone poles were installed by some ancient secret society named "GTE", and now have 20 degree bows. When lines loosen up and block traffic, the usuall…

  Drive 10-20 miles, and you'll be in areas where AT&T decided to sell the lines
  to a bankrupt telco. Looking at the lines in those areas is entertaining. The
  telephone poles were installed by some ancient secret society named "GTE", and
  now have 20 degree bows. When lines loosen up and block traffic, the usually just
  tie them up on to some nearby tree branch.
The way I remember it GTE did not go bankrupt and instead became part of Verizon. Most of the Bay Area was PacBell (landline) territory, but there were a few pockets here and there where GTE had a monopoly. For wireless it was a different story with AT&T / CellularOne getting Side A and GTE / Verizon getting Side B with PacBell being relegated to the PCS band.

In fact I just took a quick peek at their Wikipedia page. GTE went bankrupt in 1933 and recovered. They were not part of the Bell system until 2000 when they were acquired by Bell Atlantic as part of the creation of Verizon.

Monopolies suck but GTE (and Verizon) were almost always better about building out higher speed DSL and fiber than PacBell/SBC/AT&T ever were.

Re: EPB launches America’s first community-wide 25 gig internet service

#103
Meanwhile here in my large California city the best service I can get at my apartment is 100/10. That's because it's negotiated by the landlord with some kind of corporate rate (it's not shared, we still have our own modem). It actually drops to something like 80 down at peak hours.

Re: EPB launches America’s first community-wide 25 gig internet service

#104
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

20 years ago you'd have said the same thing about dsl to broadband, and if everyone had that same mentality, Netflix would still be mailing dvds and not offering 4k streaming. Innovation is good.

I think the difference is that 20 years Gbit ethernet was becoming standard issue on desktops while even 10Gbit ethernet is still pretty rare outside of the data centre and switch uplinks today. 25Gbit internet will be great for schools, libraries, and offices with multiple users but it's going to be a while before it becomes relevant for individual homes.

It's extremely relevant for putting a multifamily / condo / apartment building on the internet.

25Gbit is plenty fast enough to service dozens of units - more than twice the downlink local loop speed DOCSIS4 has, and Comcrap is still on DOCSIS 3.x.

Re: EPB launches America’s first community-wide 25 gig internet service

#105
post #101

I recently upgraded to 1.5gbps and realized a few things. The downsides: the Cat5e cables inside my condo walls can't handle more than 1.0gbps; my desktop's network port also maxes out at 1.0gbps; the wifi router in my home can't do more than 600mbps even if standing right next to it. But also, nothing I do needs this much bandwidth. I can download any steam game in the blink of an eye. I can watch streaming video at…

Doing multiple of those things at once. You're watching a movie while one kid is downloading a game and another is watching something else? I'm saying it lets your whole family never have to interact with one another.

Re: EPB launches America’s first community-wide 25 gig internet service

#106
post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You may be off a bit. A gigabit is only around 125 megabytes a second. A low end consumer SSD is closer to a 550 megabytes second, or ~4 gigabits. A high-end NVMe SSD will get you 3 or 4 gigabytes a second. 30 to 40x a gigabit!

Under ideal circumstances, yes. When say, torrenting, or anything else with non-ideal file access patterns real world speeds are not going to be nearly that high, especially on a consumer-grade drive.

Nothing is ever ideal. The point is available SSD disk I/O bandwidth will exceed network bandwidth well above a gigabit.

Re: EPB launches America’s first community-wide 25 gig internet service

#107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would a story about building high speed rail be relevant to installing fiber adjacent to existing utilities?

Because the power poles aren't owned by the cities, and the owners prevent other companies from getting access: https://www.dwt.com/blogs/broadband-advisor/2015/03/googles-...

Still a far cry from the engineering complexities, legal challenges, and costs involved in constructing high speed rail.

Re: EPB launches America’s first community-wide 25 gig internet service

#108
post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Under ideal circumstances, yes. When say, torrenting, or anything else with non-ideal file access patterns real world speeds are not going to be nearly that high, especially on a consumer-grade drive.

Nothing is ever ideal. The point is available SSD disk I/O bandwidth will exceed network bandwidth well above a gigabit.

And my point is that for 99% of people even 1Gb is overkill, so I'm not seeing why they expect Joe Smith to suddenly start buying $500 routers.

Re: EPB launches America’s first community-wide 25 gig internet service

#109
post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Meanwhile I have traffic-shaped Comcast and no fiber in sight in Silicon Valley. Isn't the SF bay area more of a geography issue than an incumbent monopoly issue? I'm sure its a mixture of both, but also a geography issue.

It's a five minute bike ride on flat land from Google HQ (mostly along utility right of way) to housing with Drive 10-20 miles, and you'll be in areas where AT&T decided to sell the lines to a bankrupt telco. Looking at the lines in those areas is entertaining. The telephone poles were installed by some ancient secret society named "GTE", and now have 20 degree bows. When lines loosen up and block traffic, the usuall…

> where AT&T decided to sell the lines to a bankrupt telco

Is that frontier? I'm pretty sure those lines were never at&t. A local phone company, then gte, then verizon, then frontier. IIRC.

Verizon is a descendent of babybells, but that doesn't make everything they touch at&t.

Re: EPB launches America’s first community-wide 25 gig internet service

#110
People may not realize just how many barriers are put in the way of this kind of thing happening and at every level of government you have skilled and experienced actors trying to make sure it doesn't happen.

The obvious one is states pass laws to forbid municipal broadband. This should be illegal. I actually wonder if the Federal government could override this since this sort of thing usually falls within the purview of the FCC but I'm no lawyer. Comcat, AT&T and Verizon all lobby hard to make municipal broadband illegal, even when they won't connect homes they have a legal obligation to connect.

But imagine it is legal and you've started an ISP. Your problems have just begun.

How are you going to run cables (fiber or otherwise) to people's homes? Are you going to dig trenches? Well you need permits for that. You might dig up someone else's cables so existing providers get to delay that process.

Or are you going to string those cables up on poles? Well, who owns the poles? It might be an existing ISP. There might be laws that allows you to string cables on those poles. Maybe there isn't. Maybe you have to pay an exorbitant amount for the privilege. Maybe Comcast is the only one legally allowed to do cable work and they'll charge you a fortune for it and take forever (and probably screw it up).

Even if the utility poles are owned by the city or the county but that doesn't necessarily solve your problem either. You need permits to string up cables. You might have to file a permit application for each pole individually. Even when you get a permit, existing users may have to move their cables to make room. They may have 90 days to move it. If several need to move cables then may well take the maximum time in turn.

Either through trenches or poles you eventually have cables. Where do you run them to? As in, are you running short cables to substations and then trunk lines back to an exchange? Or are you running long cables back to an exchange directly? Each has its problems.

The long cables may make too thick bundles for poles or require more expensive trenching. The shorter cables may require a substation that the locals view as an eyesore. You'll need to acquire land for that and may face NIMBYist opposition.

What I learned through exposure to this was that building an ISP is hyperlocal and the incumbents are way better at it. For example, there may be a lot of limestone in the soil that may make trenching slow, difficult and expensive. You may want to use poles instead but that might not be an option so you're stuck with disposing of a lot of limestone.

Dicalimer: Xoogler and I worked on Google Fiber for a time.

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