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I hope Apple never adopts RCS

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Re: I hope Apple never adopts RCS

#101

Post by Jleagle »

threeseed wrote: post #27
throw0101a wrote: post #13

So those of us who happen to own iPhones, and have friend who have Android devices, and would like to have (e.g.) group chats can go pound sand? Or try to get all of our friends/family to install yet another app? What is the main argument(s?) against implementing RCS? That it doesn't have E2EE? Neither does SMS, so RCS is no worse in that regard, but seems to have some extra nice things.

The reason is that SMS is dying and being replaced by better encrypted clients. There is no point moving to RCS which just prolongs this death and makes the current situation worse since Google has their own proprietary version of RCS.

Except SMS isn't being replaced, the new protocols work along side SMS. That's like saying WhatsApp is replacing iMessage.

RCS Only has advantages over regular SMS.

Re: I hope Apple never adopts RCS

#102

Post by throw0101a »

jaywalk wrote: post #93
throw0101a wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And in the meantime, I—an iPhone owner—should not be able to have group chats with my Android-using friends? "The perfect is the enemy of the good." RCS may not be perfect, but it seems to have nice things over and above SMS. I have no objections to adding more nice things to RCS (or whatever comes after it), but why shouldn't we implement the nice things of RCS in the meantime?

For all intents and purposes, progress stopped with carriers after MMS came around. Hey, you can send pics and videos now! And group messages! It's good! RCS requires carriers to implement it. We don't need RCS, we need something better. I'm not opposed to stopgaps, but the complexity involved with RCS makes it much more than just a stopgap. Which is why it needs to die.

And should RCS die we're stuck with SMS/MMS. Awesome.

Re: I hope Apple never adopts RCS

#103

Post by throw0101a »

danaris wrote: post #99
throw0101a wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And in the meantime, I—an iPhone owner—should not be able to have group chats with my Android-using friends? "The perfect is the enemy of the good." RCS may not be perfect, but it seems to have nice things over and above SMS. I have no objections to adding more nice things to RCS (or whatever comes after it), but why shouldn't we implement the nice things of RCS in the meantime?

If we globally adopt RCS now, we're likely to be stuck with it for the next 20 years. I'd rather hold out for something that's more than a tiny incremental improvement over SMS.

As opposed to the current situation of being stuck with SMS/MMS?

I'd rather move the ball forward with RCS and try to get something better, rather than just trying get something better—with no guarantee that it actually will happen, in which case we lost even the "incremental" opportunity of RCS.

Re: I hope Apple never adopts RCS

#104

Post by danaris »

throw0101a wrote: post #103
danaris wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If we globally adopt RCS now, we're likely to be stuck with it for the next 20 years. I'd rather hold out for something that's more than a tiny incremental improvement over SMS.

As opposed to the current situation of being stuck with SMS/MMS? I'd rather move the ball forward with RCS and try to get something better, rather than just trying get something better—with no guarantee that it actually will happen, in which case we lost even the "incremental" opportunity of RCS.

If I thought that was likely to work, I'd agree in a second.

I've seen the way these things go too often for that, though. Once there's something "good enough" in place the carriers and others who have the power to change things will just ignore all the calls for anything better. After all, we just got them to change to RCS! If that wasn't good enough, why were we pushing for it??! No, we have to take another 15, 20, 25 years to amortize the costs of switching to that.

Re: I hope Apple never adopts RCS

#105

Post by meragrin_ »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #50
meragrin_ wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is also an issue for Android users in general. In large group chat instantiated by an iPhone user, Android users may be unable to respond. My mother has encountered that on numerous occasions.

That might be a temporary technical issue, but I presume adults would just call each other and switch to Whatsapp so as to not make it a social issue like teens might by continuing to exclude someone.

> That might be a temporary technical issue,

It's temporary technical issue if Apple were to support RCS; otherwise, it is a long term issue. It is due SMS limits. This is why Google is trying to pressure Apple into supporting RCS. Apple certainly won't loosen control of iMessage.

> I presume adults would just call each other

We are talking about a large group chat. Easily 15+ people. Calling is not really an option for replying there.

> switch to Whatsapp

Not going to happen. We are talking about people who only recently became comfortable with messaging. Trying to throw them into a new application would take too long and cause too much frustration. The better answer is for Apple to support RCS.

Re: I hope Apple never adopts RCS

#106

Post by candiodari »

minimaul wrote: post #51
elashri wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Part of reason in for many places outside US. There are no unlimited messages plan. edit: people seems to miss that I said that this is only part of the reason not the reason. I also said many places outside the US (not all). So do people down vote because they think that there are only US and EU in the world? I am missing that point.

FWIW, most monthly contract plans in the UK have unlimited calls & SMS. The main differentiator is the size of the data cap. There are charges for MMS etc though. Even the cheapest of plans from the main networks (3, vodafone, EE, o2) - as low as £4/mo have unlimited calls & SMS now. edit: this has been the case for quite a few years now, too.

RCS is the successor/replacement of MMS. Carriers will charge for it and that will be the end of the protocol.

It is explicitly designed to give carriers back control of messaging.

Why am I even saying this? We all remember how much fun carriers control over SMS was. It killed sms. There were never any new features. Cost made lots of stuff, such as multi party chats effectively impossible for teenagers ... It was always very unclear how much everything cost. There were "traps" with premium services, often not advertised as such. Now there's fraud with international SMSes. And things have gotten worse' several states made clear they use phones to find abortions ... And RCS is designed to bring this back. No.

Just. NO.

Re: I hope Apple never adopts RCS

#107

Post by Jasper_ »

chrismorgan wrote: post #30

> To use iMessage, all you need is an Apple ID, which you can create for free. To use RCS, you need to have a phone number, which means that you need to have an account with a carrier. You also need to have a phone to use RCS: you can't use it on a tablet alone without LTE. I’m under the impression you need Apple hardware to use iMessage, and that even third-party solutions rely upon proxying via real Apple hardware…

Technically if you want to get in there without Mac hardware, you can just spam create valid serial identifiers for your hardware until you find one without a registration date, which you can claim and will let you on the iMessage network [0]. I'm surprised nobody has packaged this into an app before.

[0] https://dortania.github.io/OpenCore-Post-Install/universal/i...

Re: I hope Apple never adopts RCS

#108

Post by WastingMyTime89 »

Semaphor wrote: post #80
delta_p_delta_x wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The fragmentation of these third party apps gets frustrating very fast though. Agreed, although where I live, most people have consolidated on Telegram. WhatsApp was popular about 5 years ago, but its popularity has quickly waned because of how difficult inter-device use is.

> because of how difficult inter-device use is. Huh? What is difficult there?

WhatsApp was a pain to use on multiple devices. For a long time you needed the main phone to be connected nearby. I also lost my whole history when I went from Android to iOS for a silly technical reason. Really annoying.
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