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Apple’s Use of AppKit, Mac Catalyst and SwiftUI in macOS

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Re: Apple’s Use of AppKit, Mac Catalyst and SwiftUI in macOS

#101

Post by lelandfe »

charlus wrote: post #64
lelandfe wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://mobile.twitter.com/nikitonsky/status/155735766117120... This thread of UI issues with the Ventura System Settings really says it all. Most of this would have been shocking in a different era of Apple.

It’s a beta, this is not shocking in any era of Apple, just access and expectations have jumped ahead.

As a user of macOS betas for many, many years, this amount of visual issues this close to release date is pretty novel.

I have little faith this will be addressed in the scant time left before a GM release

Re: Apple’s Use of AppKit, Mac Catalyst and SwiftUI in macOS

#102

Post by ykhan6 »

Shank wrote: post #83
yakubin wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Experiment: 1. Open TextEdit.app 2. Type some random characters. 3. Attempt to quit with Cmd+Q. 4. A dialog box shows up, prompting you to save the file. Hitting Tab just cycles between the "Save As" and "Tags" text fields. There is no way for me to select the "Delete" button with Tab. Challenge: quit TextEdit.app in that situation with they keyboard, without using the mouse, and without saving a file. That's a broad…

I believe this is possible if you turn on "Use keyboard navigation to move focus between controls" in System Preferences -> Keyboard -> Shortcuts. I have no idea why this isn't on by default.

Thanks for this. I thought I was losing my mind having to grab my mouse every time I tried to quit a text editor and not save.

Re: Apple’s Use of AppKit, Mac Catalyst and SwiftUI in macOS

#103

Post by uranusjr »

yakubin wrote: post #81
grishka wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The enter key activates the blue (default) button, the spacebar activates the one with the focus ring around it. You can move the focus ring with tab.

Experiment: 1. Open TextEdit.app 2. Type some random characters. 3. Attempt to quit with Cmd+Q. 4. A dialog box shows up, prompting you to save the file. Hitting Tab just cycles between the "Save As" and "Tags" text fields. There is no way for me to select the "Delete" button with Tab. Challenge: quit TextEdit.app in that situation with they keyboard, without using the mouse, and without saving a file. That's a broad…

For “Delete” specifically you can also simply press ⌘backspace when the save dialog is activated to trigger the button. In some dialogs where the button is “Don’t Save” (i.e. autosave not active) the combo may be ⌘D

Re: Apple’s Use of AppKit, Mac Catalyst and SwiftUI in macOS

#104

Post by [deleted] »

lapcat wrote: post #98
alexashka wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hear you on the downsides of Electron. The upsides are that there is a plethora of ready-made UI and backend integration solutions to choose from and an abundant pool of candidates to hire from, for a reasonable wage. I don't think there are more than 1000 people worldwide who have shipped a moderately complex mac-native app within the past decade. Apple doesn't seem to think it a problem - they're well on their wa…

> I don't think there are more than 1000 people worldwide who have shipped a moderately complex mac-native app within the past decade. This is grossly mistaken. The Mac App Store, which is only 11 years old, is by itself empirical refutation of this claim. Also, I believe your claim is also mistaken that "Apple itself uses webviews for complex UI in their desktop Music app." Where do you get that from? I don't mean t…

[deleted]

Re: Apple’s Use of AppKit, Mac Catalyst and SwiftUI in macOS

#105

Post by blkhp19 »

alexashka wrote: post #28

Meh. Apple has near infinite resources, it can do whatever it wants. The rest of industry has moved on to Electron and keeps bucking, trying to get react native or some other cross platform thing to work well enough on mobile. Apple itself uses webviews for complex UI in their desktop Music app. Are there any non-trivial apps Apple has created from scratch in the past decade using its own libraries and frameworks? No…

Photos.app

Re: Apple’s Use of AppKit, Mac Catalyst and SwiftUI in macOS

#106

Post by [deleted] »

yakubin wrote: post #66
jbverschoor wrote: post #2

Yup. and basically all apps (re)created suck big time. They're just iOS ports. You're forced to do litereally everything using your mouse, and for example the Home app, it's basically useless if you want to organize/edit things. We're going to a CRUD operation world, where you have to do every edit one-by-one. And then in a few years, people will be amazed that you can save so much time because of a new "bulk editing…

I started using macOS with Big Sur (still on it) and I don't understand why Apple would remove the ability to select buttons in dialog windows with the keyboard. I've googled it and it seems you used to be able to do that on macOS, but when I follow the instructions on Big Sur, I can't move the selection from the button active by default to the other one (e.g. "Ok" vs "Cancel"). That means my right hand is making run…

[deleted]

Re: Apple’s Use of AppKit, Mac Catalyst and SwiftUI in macOS

#107

Post by musicale »

cr__ wrote: post #87
yakubin wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Experiment: 1. Open TextEdit.app 2. Type some random characters. 3. Attempt to quit with Cmd+Q. 4. A dialog box shows up, prompting you to save the file. Hitting Tab just cycles between the "Save As" and "Tags" text fields. There is no way for me to select the "Delete" button with Tab. Challenge: quit TextEdit.app in that situation with they keyboard, without using the mouse, and without saving a file. That's a broad…

CMD-Delete almost always serves to press the Delete button or the equivalent in those dialogs. Not sure how you're supposed to find that out though!

> CMD-Delete

This^. It used to be command-D for "Delete/Don't Save" but at some point they changed it to command-delete; maybe someone thought it made more sense and was harder to type by accident?

     command-delete (backspace, not forward delete)
     esc
     return/enter
I actually prefer command-D precisely because it is easier to type: on the home row and you can type it with your left hand while mousing with the right.

Re: Apple’s Use of AppKit, Mac Catalyst and SwiftUI in macOS

#108

Post by sixstringtheory »

yakubin wrote: post #66
jbverschoor wrote: post #2

Yup. and basically all apps (re)created suck big time. They're just iOS ports. You're forced to do litereally everything using your mouse, and for example the Home app, it's basically useless if you want to organize/edit things. We're going to a CRUD operation world, where you have to do every edit one-by-one. And then in a few years, people will be amazed that you can save so much time because of a new "bulk editing…

I started using macOS with Big Sur (still on it) and I don't understand why Apple would remove the ability to select buttons in dialog windows with the keyboard. I've googled it and it seems you used to be able to do that on macOS, but when I follow the instructions on Big Sur, I can't move the selection from the button active by default to the other one (e.g. "Ok" vs "Cancel"). That means my right hand is making run…

There’s an option in Keyboard settings > Shortcuts > “Use keyboard navigation to move focus…”. There are a couple security based dialogs it don’t work in but the majority of things it does work for me.

Re: Apple’s Use of AppKit, Mac Catalyst and SwiftUI in macOS

#109

Post by musicale »

jcampbell1 wrote: post #94
grishka wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The enter key activates the blue (default) button, the spacebar activates the one with the focus ring around it. You can move the focus ring with tab.

Cmd+the first letter of the button works.

Does it work in TextEdit?

Re: Apple’s Use of AppKit, Mac Catalyst and SwiftUI in macOS

#110

Post by musicale »

conradev wrote: post #13
WoodenChair wrote: post #9

It's really not an impressive showing for SwiftUI. 4 iterations later and after being told it's "the future" in unequivocal terms, it's still at 12% (and only like 3% without any AppKit combined (last chart)). It's not dogfooded for any productivity apps. For Ventura, rewriting "Font Book, System Settings, and Tips" is not exactly confidence inducing. If they rewrote Pages or Final Cut Pro, that would wake people up.…

Why would they rewrite Final Cut Pro in SwiftUI? Rewriting code is a large effort and a waste of time without proper justification – new developer tooling for UI is not usually a good enough justification to rewrite the entire UI

The same reason they created Final Cut Pro X and alienated the users of FCP 7? ;-)
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