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Mercedes and Ferrari’s edge in the electric car age: high-end axial motors

bloomberg.com

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Re: Mercedes and Ferrari’s edge in the electric car age: high-end axial motors

#101

Post by tdesilva »

it_citizen wrote: post #34
mechanical_bear wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why?

Climate change reports are all pretty clear we need to move to smaller, less powerful cars to meet our climate pledges. And produce less of them. I think starting to see cars as a simple mean to go from A to B instead of a symbol of freedom, status or virility would really be a huge win. I also hope that on the long run it would help more city dwellers accept the idea of sharing cars instead of owning one. Collective…

How do self-driving cars funnel money into public transport and and reclaim space? I think they're more likely to do the opposite.

Seems silly to rely on self-driving to reduce emissions when we don't know how to build self-driving cars yet, but we do know how to build better public transit and design walkable cities.

Re: Mercedes and Ferrari’s edge in the electric car age: high-end axial motors

#102

Post by rcMgD2BwE72F »

sschueller wrote: post #93
gzer0 wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not even close. Psuedo-LiDAR approach is the way to go and everyone knows it. Waymo and others using LiDAR placed the wrong bet and now have nothing to show for it.

Waymo hasn't killed anyone yet. I think that is probably the most important thing to show.

Waymos drive so slow, any Tesla with the same "driver" would kill anyone else.

Re: Mercedes and Ferrari’s edge in the electric car age: high-end axial motors

#103

Post by xbmcuser »

NoPicklez wrote: post #85
devnulll wrote: post #4

> Putting a motor on each wheel — or at least one on each axle — could translate into hair-raising EV driving performance. I don't understand this. My Plaid Tesla has a motor on each of the rear axles, and it's direct coupled to the wheel. The already are doing torque vectoring. Like all things in engineering, the trade-off's are critical. This article doesn't go at all into the pros/cons of the approach Tesla (and o…

With regards to your general rule statement. There has been a lot of discussion/reporting around the manufacturing and design of Tesla cars that is way behind that of the likes of Toyota, Nissan and Honda. The computer systems are state of the art, but in with regards to the design and manufacturing of its chassis, Tesla has been historically behind the times. Just because Tesla doesn’t do it, doesn’t mean it’s not t…

Partly I agree and its the reason I have been disappointed specially in Toyota trying to protect it cash cow and supply chain. They are not really getting into electric cars. Even today they are trying to hedge with hydrogen fuel cars its as they feel hydrogen cars will require the least amount of changes for their supply chain.

Re: Mercedes and Ferrari’s edge in the electric car age: high-end axial motors

#104

Post by paganel »

arcticbull wrote: post #94
paganel wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“ICE propaganda” is something that I would actively follow and support, I’d even put my vote for a political platform that would have it front and center. Unfortunately this article was nothing of the sorts, as the future of vehicle transportation doesn’t depend on its luxury makers.

Honestly why stop there? I'm big on the Fred Flintstones foot-driven model. I'd even put my vote behind a political platform that has it front and center. I think cars make the world worse, but to the extent that we have them electric cars are significantly better than ICE cars in basically every way. I want less cars, but until then, they should be electric. Efficiency is higher, torque off the line is significantly…

> Honestly why stop there?

ICE cars were a lot better than horse- and cow-driven carts (I should know about the latter, my entire childhood at my grandparents was spent in cow-driven carts on the way to the the hay-growing fields and back, think this [1]), while I don't see EVs better than ICE cars.

Yes, on some technical parameters they are better, as you mention, but on many others they are not: the charging times will never come down to reasonable times unless we discover some new laws of physics, which in turn causes people like me, who live in apartment blocks, to not be able to have a EV (I'm not going to spend half an hour and more every few days at an electrical charging station), prices will never go to the same level as ICE cars (unless ICE cars become even more expensive thanks to new extra taxes imposed from top-down), the EVs are "dependent" on their computer OSs, I have very rarely met a computer OS that is easily updatable and maintainable after 10 or so years, as such, most of the EVs will become a pain in the ass to own after those 10 or so years (as it now happens to smart-phones after 3-4 years).

[1] https://alpinet.org/foto/2003/10/22/ZjkyOGRhZDE5ZmZmNjUwMjEw...

Re: Mercedes and Ferrari’s edge in the electric car age: high-end axial motors

#105

Post by hooloovoo_zoo »

albertopv wrote: post #81
hooloovoo_zoo wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ferrari has no choice. They’ll eventually be banned on noise pollution grounds/ be too low performance to be considered super cars if they stick with internal combustion.

When you buy a Ferrari you buy an experience, history etc, engine sound is good part of that experience. No way Ferrari will be banned for noise or pollution. On road a Ferrari noise is quite low when running low speed. Pollution is non existent for cars that drive few kms per year.

Supposedly it's already happening, although I think in this particular case Nissan is just whining and can't actually sell the car because it's outdated. https://jalopnik.com/nissan-killed-the-gt-r-in-europe-becaus.... The regulations are thankfully only going to get stricter.

Re: Mercedes and Ferrari’s edge in the electric car age: high-end axial motors

#106

Post by ajmurmann »

albertopv wrote: post #81
hooloovoo_zoo wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ferrari has no choice. They’ll eventually be banned on noise pollution grounds/ be too low performance to be considered super cars if they stick with internal combustion.

When you buy a Ferrari you buy an experience, history etc, engine sound is good part of that experience. No way Ferrari will be banned for noise or pollution. On road a Ferrari noise is quite low when running low speed. Pollution is non existent for cars that drive few kms per year.

Honda Civic Type Rs have a speaker system that makes more impressive engine sounds for the driver. Maybe Ferrari can go with that

Re: Mercedes and Ferrari’s edge in the electric car age: high-end axial motors

#107

Post by renewiltord »

metadat wrote: post #9

Why do EVs of the current age look so douchie? I wouldn't be caught dead in one. Tesla model S, X, and Y. All Lucid models. Mercedes and Ferraris. Why can't they look neutral? I want low-key, efficient, safe, and functional. And ideally more than 35 American miles of range.

Ou wouldn't be able to tell a VW ID4 EV from an ICE car.

Re: Mercedes and Ferrari’s edge in the electric car age: high-end axial motors

#108

Post by NoPicklez »

ricw wrote: post #88
NoPicklez wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With regards to your general rule statement. There has been a lot of discussion/reporting around the manufacturing and design of Tesla cars that is way behind that of the likes of Toyota, Nissan and Honda. The computer systems are state of the art, but in with regards to the design and manufacturing of its chassis, Tesla has been historically behind the times. Just because Tesla doesn’t do it, doesn’t mean it’s not t…

That may have been the case 5 years ago, but these days it’s the opposite. Look at the Munro live Tesla tear downs on YouTube, particularly the megacastings structure, the battery packs or heat pumps. It’s night and day.

That's great as Munro were the group who originally game them a bad wrap regarding their chassis design.

My point still stands and it clearly shows that Tesla have room to improve, just like all car companies.

Re: Mercedes and Ferrari’s edge in the electric car age: high-end axial motors

#109

Post by dzhiurgis »

Smoosh wrote: post #39
clouddrover wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As a general rule, if Tesla isn't doing it already I suspect it's either not economically feasible, difficult to manufacture, or otherwise has drawbacks they've judged signifigant. That's not a very good rule. There a lots of things Tesla doesn't do. - Tesla doesn't do battery swaps, but NIO does. NIO's done it 10 million times: https://www.nio.com/blog/nio-users-china-have-completed-10-m... - Tesla doesn't do 350…

> And so on I would really like V2H or V2G but no sign of it from Tesla so far.

IMO that should be illegal to sell. Such a missed opportunity.

Re: Mercedes and Ferrari’s edge in the electric car age: high-end axial motors

#110

Post by jacquesm »

devnulll wrote: post #4

> Putting a motor on each wheel — or at least one on each axle — could translate into hair-raising EV driving performance. I don't understand this. My Plaid Tesla has a motor on each of the rear axles, and it's direct coupled to the wheel. The already are doing torque vectoring. Like all things in engineering, the trade-off's are critical. This article doesn't go at all into the pros/cons of the approach Tesla (and o…

> My Plaid Tesla has a motor on each of the rear axles

In car terminology you have only one rear axle (which is all of the unsprung weight in the back) and two driveshafts, I think you meant driveshaft (unless you have a six wheel Tesla...).

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