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Housing is at the root of many of the rich world’s problems (2020)

economist.com

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Re: Housing is at the root of many of the rich world’s problems (2020)

#101

Post by QuarterReptile »

strikelaserclaw wrote: post #33
throwaway22032 wrote: post #27

Our economic system is set up such that you either hit a bar at which you accumulate capital forever unless you make a mistake, or you're loss-making forever. Once you hit that bar, your job becomes buying up housing like it's a Monopoly board. As an individual you can either choose to win or lose this game. We're not going to change it, at least not within our lifetimes.

the fatal flaw in capitalism imo, a lot of wealth gets created which is good for everyone but eventually, a lot of that wealth also gets held by a smaller and smaller minority while the rest try to desperately compete over whatever is left over. After a certain point a certain portion of any new wealth created somehow trickles up to the capital owning class (think your VC's, fund owners, other rich investors), this c…

>a lot of that wealth also gets held by a smaller and smaller minority while the rest try to desperately compete over whatever is left over.

This is the tendency of every economic system that has ever been seen or theorized. The wealth creation is what makes capitalism distinct.

I don't mean to say that 'capitalism' is the answer to the world's problems, but I point out that it's not the source of that particular intractable problem.

Re: Housing is at the root of many of the rich world’s problems (2020)

#102

Post by [deleted] »

infl8ed wrote: post #21
pochekailov wrote: post #14

Nothing will change while the homeowners have more political power than the renters. Even in the cities where the renter population is bigger than the homeowners, such as in Seattle, half of the votes come from people of > 65 years old (all of whom are homeowners, likely more than one home). Young people simply won't vote at all. There is very little incentives for the young people to vote. Even if you cancel all the…

Although I don't disagree with you, I will just mention that housing affordability is also a problem in Australia where voting is mandatory

[deleted]

Re: Housing is at the root of many of the rich world’s problems (2020)

#103

Post by rowanG077 »

29athrowaway wrote: post #99
pochekailov wrote: post #14

Nothing will change while the homeowners have more political power than the renters. Even in the cities where the renter population is bigger than the homeowners, such as in Seattle, half of the votes come from people of > 65 years old (all of whom are homeowners, likely more than one home). Young people simply won't vote at all. There is very little incentives for the young people to vote. Even if you cancel all the…

Then each renter will become a homeowner, they will feel very comfortable, have 4 kids, and now you will need 4x more units. Then their kids will have 4 kids, and you'll need 16x more units with respect to where you started. Few generations after you have a much deeper problem that the one you started with. Now you live in a country with a population of over 1 billion, where protests cannot be controlled anymore and…

So your point is we need to keep people in such shitty situations they won't want to bring kids into this world?

Re: Housing is at the root of many of the rich world’s problems (2020)

#104

Post by onlyrealcuzzo »

refurb wrote: post #25
pochekailov wrote: post #14

Nothing will change while the homeowners have more political power than the renters. Even in the cities where the renter population is bigger than the homeowners, such as in Seattle, half of the votes come from people of > 65 years old (all of whom are homeowners, likely more than one home). Young people simply won't vote at all. There is very little incentives for the young people to vote. Even if you cancel all the…

I think young generation needs to engage in the politics with the uncompromised goal to crush the housing price At least where I live, the “bank of mom and dad” either use their home equity to help their kids buy OR the kids are banking on getting the family home when they die. We’re in too deep now. We basically painted ourselves into a corner where the economic engine is so intertwined with rising home prices that…

If you think we're in too deep, you should check out China.

Re: Housing is at the root of many of the rich world’s problems (2020)

#105

Post by ziddoap »

29athrowaway wrote: post #99
pochekailov wrote: post #14

Nothing will change while the homeowners have more political power than the renters. Even in the cities where the renter population is bigger than the homeowners, such as in Seattle, half of the votes come from people of > 65 years old (all of whom are homeowners, likely more than one home). Young people simply won't vote at all. There is very little incentives for the young people to vote. Even if you cancel all the…

Then each renter will become a homeowner, they will feel very comfortable, have 4 kids, and now you will need 4x more units. Then their kids will have 4 kids, and you'll need 16x more units with respect to where you started. Few generations after you have a much deeper problem that the one you started with. Now you live in a country with a population of over 1 billion, where protests cannot be controlled anymore and…

>It's fine for people to struggle and be stressed out, the opposite would be overpopulation.

People should struggle now to the point that they can't have kids so that 3 generations down the line we don't need more housing?

Please correct me if I'm misunderstanding. Because this seems like a pretty hot take if I'm understanding you correctly.

Re: Housing is at the root of many of the rich world’s problems (2020)

#106

Post by coryrc »

alistairSH wrote: post #77
lambertsimnel wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some people find it difficult to vote, for reasons I suspect disproportionately affect renters. Where people must be registered with their home address in order to vote, renters are at more risk of being unregistered at election time, because they move home more frequently. People experiencing economic hardship (who are more likely to be renters) are less likely to make time for voting (especially if polling stations…

Not sure why you're being downvoted. Whether it's intentional or not, voting in the US is not always easy for several reasons... 1 - No national election day holiday, so wage-earners often have to forgo income to vote. 2 - Long lines, too few voting stations, exacerbate point 1 3 - Inconsistent voting laws as you cross municipal boundaries (mostly state to state). 3b - particularly WRT mail-in/absentee ballots. 4 - c…

Then why does Washington state also have low voter participation?

Nine of that applies to a Democratic-run state with mail-in-only voting.

Re: Housing is at the root of many of the rich world’s problems (2020)

#107

Post by 29athrowaway »

rowanG077 wrote: post #103
29athrowaway wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then each renter will become a homeowner, they will feel very comfortable, have 4 kids, and now you will need 4x more units. Then their kids will have 4 kids, and you'll need 16x more units with respect to where you started. Few generations after you have a much deeper problem that the one you started with. Now you live in a country with a population of over 1 billion, where protests cannot be controlled anymore and…

So your point is we need to keep people in such shitty situations they won't want to bring kids into this world?

My point is that the system is overcapacity, that's the reality you like it or not.

If you want to watch Netflix and forget about what's happening outside, that's your choice. But we are completely destroying this planet in every way.

There are lots of mouths to feed every day depending on systems that are not sustainable and may collapse. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RjsThobgq7Q

If you go camping and have limited amount of food rations, water, etc, you will make sensible decisions about how to consume the supplies you have. This is very similar.

Re: Housing is at the root of many of the rich world’s problems (2020)

#108

Post by Applejinx »

anovikov wrote: post #83
pochekailov wrote: post #14

Nothing will change while the homeowners have more political power than the renters. Even in the cities where the renter population is bigger than the homeowners, such as in Seattle, half of the votes come from people of > 65 years old (all of whom are homeowners, likely more than one home). Young people simply won't vote at all. There is very little incentives for the young people to vote. Even if you cancel all the…

I think you are more than exaggerating. Thinking of someone who's 65 now and owns several homes, these people are utter fools. How much would money put into houses 40 years ago when they bought, and put into stocks at the same time, would make? You don't even need to google up to know the answer. SP500 would make 96x with dividends reinvested and 37x without. Median home price is not even 10x, and the median home has…

Why should stocks be an asset class guaranteed to always expand at such a hyperbolic rate?

Re: Housing is at the root of many of the rich world’s problems (2020)

#109

Post by Aunche »

infl8ed wrote: post #21
pochekailov wrote: post #14

Nothing will change while the homeowners have more political power than the renters. Even in the cities where the renter population is bigger than the homeowners, such as in Seattle, half of the votes come from people of > 65 years old (all of whom are homeowners, likely more than one home). Young people simply won't vote at all. There is very little incentives for the young people to vote. Even if you cancel all the…

Although I don't disagree with you, I will just mention that housing affordability is also a problem in Australia where voting is mandatory

I don't think mandating voting really helps that much. At best, you'll get people to vote for the candidate with the (D) or (R) next to their name. What we need is for people to be more informed. Fewer than 20% of people can name their state legislatures, let alone their stances.

https://hub.jhu.edu/2018/12/14/americans-dont-understand-sta...

Re: Housing is at the root of many of the rich world’s problems (2020)

#110

Post by TuringNYC »

nradov wrote: post #78
francisofascii wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, you can't vote where you don't live. The large problem is the lack of appropriate land taxes in high cost municipalities. And you can't vote to change that until you live there, and once you live there, you are much less incentivized to vote against your self interests.

Most of the laws regarding property taxes are set at the state level, not the municipal level. In California, a voter in Modesto can influence tax rates in San Francisco. Local votes only control minor things like special additional school district assessments.

That may be how things work in California, but it definitely does not work like that everywhere in the US. For example, here in NJ, property taxes are partly set by the state, but the schools portion is set my the county and township.
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