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Usage of EU subsidiaries of US cloud providers deemed unlawful by German court

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Re: Usage of EU subsidiaries of US cloud providers deemed unlawful by German court

#101

Post by wins32767 »

bettysdiagnose wrote: post #69
wins32767 wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, because Germany doesn't have that big of an IT space. Aerospace and automotive would be good sectors to hit back with because they are more relatively important to Germany as IT is for the US.

OK but not wanting our personal records to be arbitrarily sized by the US government is very reasonable. Your government made a law that lets it spy on us... that's your problem.

I don't think it's reasonable that I'm paying more than my share of taxes for the defense capabilities that allows Europe free access to a stable world market and roughly rules based international order that underpins the export economy of Germany in particular. If Europe would fix that, I'd feel a lot worse about the spying.

Re: Usage of EU subsidiaries of US cloud providers deemed unlawful by German court

#102

Post by jaywalk »

CGamesPlay wrote: post #46
michaelbuckbee wrote: post #34

The context for this: say you're a SaaS and you want to tap into the EU market. Per GDPR, personally identifiable data shouldn't leave the jurisdiction of the EU so you should use EU hosted servers, storage etc. So you might then split your app to an EU hosted datacenter of your preferred cloud provider. This ruling says that's insufficient as while the data remains functionally in the EU it's still possible for it t…

> it's still possible for it to be accessed on the backend by non EU entities. Why is this the case? Why aren't EU employees who allow the data to leave the EU negligent?

What if there are no EU employees?

Re: Usage of EU subsidiaries of US cloud providers deemed unlawful by German court

#103

Post by the_duke »

intunderflow wrote: post #41

And slowly but surely the tidal wave of the consequences of GDPR versus the CLOUD Act come into view. It will take many years to of delays and fretting (due to the dependence on US clouds) but fundamentally the current legal position is that GDPR is fundamentally incompatible with any personal data transfer to the USA, that's how Google Analytics keeps getting banned too. At some point this will all come to a head an…

The cloud providers can work with independent operators that run their cloud solutions in Europe. Basically an on-premise setup, just on a huge scale.

Microsoft initially did this for Azure, I believe.

Certainly will cause a lot of friction.

Re: Usage of EU subsidiaries of US cloud providers deemed unlawful by German court

#104

Post by ThunderSizzle »

joshuaissac wrote: post #50
jimbob45 wrote: post #5

Isn’t this sort of what we accuse the Chinese of doing? The US designs the technology and then the Chinese manufacturers steal that design to make their own? Except now, the EU is more or less forcing American companies to sell unaffiliated spin-offs to the EU to continue doing business there. Seems a bit underhanded to change the rules now after so long, especially considering the fact that the EU can’t make these c…

> Except now, the EU is more or less forcing American companies to sell unaffiliated spin-offs to the EU to continue doing business there. Isn't that what happened with TikTok? Both China and the US have laws that force global subsidiaries of Chinese/American companies to hand over data held overseas.

I would argue China-US relationships are not that of allies or friends. There isn't a war or cold war going on, but I wouldn't pretend that the relations between China and the US are peaceful and represent trustful tranquility.

I would argue the relationship between Europe and US are substantially better, although not without frustrations from both sides, some warranted and some not.

At the very least, several countries are in a formal defensive alliance with the US and each other (NATO).

Re: Usage of EU subsidiaries of US cloud providers deemed unlawful by German court

#105

Post by mgraczyk »

light_hue_1 wrote: post #62
mgraczyk wrote: post #51

Sounds like blatant protectionism to me. If I'm reading the ruling correctly, the relevant legal standard applied here is completely bogus. They find that it is a violation of GDPR because the parent company could access the data, in principle if they wanted to. It doesn't matter if there are safeguards, technical, or institutional preventions in place. However, the exact same argument applies to any EU company with…

It's not protectionism. The agreement with the US parent company allowed them to access the data! > A included clauses in the offer that stated, among other things, that it will not access, use, or disclose customer data to any third party, except as necessary to maintain or provide the Services, or as necessary to comply with the law or a valid and binding order of a governmental body. So it is a transfer of data fr…

Lots of EU companies have the same language in their policies. For example

https://us.ovhcloud.com/legal/privacy-policy

Re: Usage of EU subsidiaries of US cloud providers deemed unlawful by German court

#106

Post by arlort »

jiggywiggy wrote: post #33

Yeah wondering about the consequences. By this logic almost every non-EU Saas would be forbidden. For sure Stripe is also not allowed, huge amount of customer data in US hands.

> non-EU

The problem isn't non EU services, it's the US CLOUD act

Other countries have legal systems which are considered as offering equivalent protection:

> The European Commission has so far recognised Andorra, Argentina, Canada (commercial organisations), Faroe Islands, Guernsey, Israel, Isle of Man, Japan, Jersey, New Zealand, Republic of Korea, Switzerland , the United Kingdom under the GDPR and the LED, and Uruguay as providing adequate protection.

And for many more countries standard contractual clauses would probably be enough

Re: Usage of EU subsidiaries of US cloud providers deemed unlawful by German court

#107

Post by kazinator »

lizardactivist wrote: post #70
chrisseaton wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the internet was invented here In Europe?

They mean the WWW, which is really what the Internet has always been about. And yes, it was invented in Europe.

The web browser which actually made the web usable and popularized it was Mosaic.

"Mosaic was developed at the National Center for Supercomputing Applications (NCSA) at the University of Illinois at Urbana–Champaign beginning in late 1992." -- Wikipedia

Other than Linux's European origin, Europe has not produced any viable operating system or browser. It continues to rely on key software of American origin, like the rest of the world.

Re: Usage of EU subsidiaries of US cloud providers deemed unlawful by German court

#108

Post by rad_gruchalski »

For public services, as in government public. From the page:

The case concerns a decision by the Vergabekammer Baden-Württemberg ("Procurement chamber Baden-Wuerttemberg"), the administrative authority that reviews the public procurement procedures.

On 3.11.2021, a public authority issued a Europe-wide invitation to tender for the procurement of software for digital management via an open procedure. The award criteria contained, among other things, requirements for data protection and IT security. The public authority received offers from company A and company B.

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