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Alex Jones must pay $50m in punitive damages for Sandy Hook hoax claim

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Alex Jones must pay $50m in punitive damages for Sandy Hook hoax claim

#101

Post by godmode2019 »

gerdesj wrote: post #70
pessimizer wrote: post #10

I'm a supporter of Jones being able to spread whatever insane theories he wants whether or not he believes them himself, but he slandered the parents of dead children to the degree that some of the most insane and aggressive people in the world think that they're the agents of a world conspiracy with the intent to enslave the planet. $50 mil is a light judgement.

"I'm a supporter of Jones being able to spread whatever insane theories" I think you are a supporter of freedom of speech in general - that's something I thoroughly approve of too. I also think you are able to understand the difference between seeing a horrendous crime and seeing that crime and attempting to profit from it. That seems to be what this bloke did: He tried to change and engorge the narrative regarding t…

Do you have evidence that he was caught out by the sending too much SMS data?

His own statement said the SMS data was from 2019, it was all messages from that year rather than the ones filtered by the relevant keywords.

The media reports did not have the same conclusion you are suggesting.

Re: Alex Jones must pay $50m in punitive damages for Sandy Hook hoax claim

#102

Post by spuz »

faizshah wrote: post #11

Anyone got a good law blog article for legal analysis on this case and the implications?

Not blogs but two podcasts:

Knowledge Fight for details on every awful thing Alex Jones and his crew have done over the years: https://knowledgefight.com/

Opening Arguments: more general law stuff but the last couple of episodes have covered how dumb Alex Jones'lawyers are in this case: https://openargs.com/oa619-ok-alex-joness-lawyers-really-don...

Re: Alex Jones must pay $50m in punitive damages for Sandy Hook hoax claim

#103

Post by noduerme »

gerdesj wrote: post #70
pessimizer wrote: post #10

I'm a supporter of Jones being able to spread whatever insane theories he wants whether or not he believes them himself, but he slandered the parents of dead children to the degree that some of the most insane and aggressive people in the world think that they're the agents of a world conspiracy with the intent to enslave the planet. $50 mil is a light judgement.

"I'm a supporter of Jones being able to spread whatever insane theories" I think you are a supporter of freedom of speech in general - that's something I thoroughly approve of too. I also think you are able to understand the difference between seeing a horrendous crime and seeing that crime and attempting to profit from it. That seems to be what this bloke did: He tried to change and engorge the narrative regarding t…

>> He tried to convince the world that the crime didn't actually happen and even worse tried to convince the world that the dead were actors and other nonsense.

I'm a Jewish grandson of Holocaust survivors. I'm also American. I'm pretty happy our country has not adopted laws against holocaust denial in the way Germany or Canada have. I appreciate the thought behind those laws. But I appreciate freedom of speech more. And I do have faith that sunlight is the best disinfectant, and that truth will prevail over lies.

On the other hand, but not in contradiction, I'm also a huge fan of the American system of Tort Law. It's the discovery and enforcement mechanism of a free country.

I think in this case, the system is working exactly as intended. No one is jailing Jones for his speech. But he can be held responsible for the damage that resulted from it, in a way that will dissuade others from profiting off of similar attempts to rewrite history.

Re: Alex Jones must pay $50m in punitive damages for Sandy Hook hoax claim

#104

Post by 59125throwaya »

golergka wrote: post #35
apazzolini wrote: post #20

Let me know once he actually transfers a non-zero sum towards either the punitive or compensatory amounts.

I'm a minor Russian political activist and a lot of my friends have had to fled the country in order to avoid persecution. This case and the manner in which the trial has been conducted is night and day difference to what Russian state does to it's citizens. I don't have the time or endurance to describe all the details to you, but just as a simple example — a regional parliament member has been recently sentenced to…

For those interested in more insight on how Russia now and in the past is not like the west, I have found The Eastern Border podcast to be illuminating. https://theeasternborder.lv/ Look for the episodes prior to the war in Ukraine.

Re: Alex Jones must pay $50m in punitive damages for Sandy Hook hoax claim

#105

Post by [deleted] »

chrononaut wrote: post #59
ericmcer wrote: post #2

Ignoring that Jones is a garbage human and just focusing on the case: that isn’t protected free speech? I don’t know all the rules around when speech isn’t protected but the article doesn’t really cover why this wasn’t. Does this set a precedent that anyone who spouts conspiracy theories about an event is targetable by those who suffered from that event?

> Does this set a precedent that anyone who spouts conspiracy theories about an event is targetable by those who suffered from that event? Interestingly, despite whether people believe free speech applies or not, the argument whether it could be considered free speech is actually irrelevant because Alex failed to test that defense by defaulting in the original trials by failing to turn over documents. As such, I can'…

[deleted]

Re: Alex Jones must pay $50m in punitive damages for Sandy Hook hoax claim

#106

Post by tootie »

gerdesj wrote: post #70
pessimizer wrote: post #10

I'm a supporter of Jones being able to spread whatever insane theories he wants whether or not he believes them himself, but he slandered the parents of dead children to the degree that some of the most insane and aggressive people in the world think that they're the agents of a world conspiracy with the intent to enslave the planet. $50 mil is a light judgement.

"I'm a supporter of Jones being able to spread whatever insane theories" I think you are a supporter of freedom of speech in general - that's something I thoroughly approve of too. I also think you are able to understand the difference between seeing a horrendous crime and seeing that crime and attempting to profit from it. That seems to be what this bloke did: He tried to change and engorge the narrative regarding t…

I fervently believe that there's no practical way for government to regulate speech so they shouldn't try. If there were a magic way to stop people like Jones from talking that wouldn't chill free speech in general, I'd take it in a heartbeat. He's not contributing to the marketplace of ideas. He's spreading lies deliberately for his personal profit.

Re: Alex Jones must pay $50m in punitive damages for Sandy Hook hoax claim

#107

Post by mlyle »

thebradbain wrote: post #85
mlyle wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Generally, to appeal a judgment, you need to post a bond. Otherwise, the other side can move to enforce the judgment. This seems to be the case in Texas, though it seems the amount of the bond is capped at 50% of his net worth.

Per the NYT [1], "his and Free Speech Systems’ combined net worth likely fell between $135 million and $270 million." So depending on what that split is, and how the court considers Free Speech Systems's worth in relation to him, that cap wouldn't necessarily apply. [1] https://www.nytimes.com/2022/08/05/us/alex-jones-finances.ht...

Yes. I'm just pointing it out as a caveat because of his attempts to shield assets.

Re: Alex Jones must pay $50m in punitive damages for Sandy Hook hoax claim

#108

Post by roenxi »

dragonwriter wrote: post #23

Actually, no, the jury verdict on punitive damages is $45.2 million, but that is certain to be reduced before Jones is ordered to pay (there seems to be some dispute over whether a portion of the compensatory damages award is economic or not, and depending on the answer on that, the cap under Texas statutory punitive damages caps would seem to be somewhere between $750k and $1m; even if the plaintiffs succeed in thei…

If Jones can afford to pay any of these figures that it says interesting things about how ineffective deplatforming is and really rather undermines the "big tech is a monopoly!" argument. Most people can't make $4 million in a lifetime, let alone these figures.

Re: Alex Jones must pay $50m in punitive damages for Sandy Hook hoax claim

#109

Post by hunterb123 »

threeseed wrote: post #91
snoopy_telex wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nothing yet, but it’s a lot more then just the phone and it’s a huge mess. https://www.emptywheel.net/2022/08/04/its-a-tremendous-amoun...

Huge mess is an understatement. The phone conversations have also been handed over to the Jan 6 commission, FBI, DOJ etc.

You can't use leaked attorney/client information for investigations.

The texts were from 2019 as well, not sure how they are relevant to J6.

- 4A protects against unreasonable searches

- 5A guarantees due process

- 6A guarantees right to counsel

Using leaked information from an attorney violates all three.

-- EDIT --

> FireBeyond: 5A - due process - due process includes supplying all information.

No it does not, you only have to supply subpoenaed information relevant to the trial.

The lawyer leaked THE ENTIRE PHONE.

Passing that leaked info to ANOTHER investigation is a bigger no no.

Re: Alex Jones must pay $50m in punitive damages for Sandy Hook hoax claim

#110

Post by mypalmike »

ericmcer wrote: post #2

Ignoring that Jones is a garbage human and just focusing on the case: that isn’t protected free speech? I don’t know all the rules around when speech isn’t protected but the article doesn’t really cover why this wasn’t. Does this set a precedent that anyone who spouts conspiracy theories about an event is targetable by those who suffered from that event?

"All dog owners are part of a secret cabal that eats babies" is protected speech.

"This specific dog owner, Judy Smith, is part of a secret cabal that eats babies" is libelous.

... or at potentially so. There are situations where it might not be found libelous.

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