Live data from Hacker News

Developers are burned out, quitting jobs and creating a crisis for recruiters

worklife.news

101–110 of 130 posts

Re: Developers are burned out, quitting jobs and creating a crisis for recruiters

#101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is just intrinsic to how businesses are run. Businesses are run by decision makers. Decision makers delegate tasks to do-ers. If do-ers mess up, it is solely their fault for underdelivering (in the eyes of the delegator/decision-maker). The idea that do-ers can make decisions or inversely - that decision makers can do (anything beside delegate) is alien in business.

> The idea that do-ers can make decisions or inversely - that decision makers can do (anything beside delegate) is alien in business. No. Knowledge workers are never mere executors, by definition. Additionally, not all business exists to benefit only the "decision makers". There are such things as coops, social utility companies and no profits.

We generally are talking capitalists when discussing such things, and those other people you list are “socialists”.

Re: Developers are burned out, quitting jobs and creating a crisis for recruiters

#102
post #4

> creating a crisis for recruiters Weird angle. Isn't the actual story the high levels of burnout in developers, rather than the inconvenience this creates for recruiters? The article is more balanced, but why lead with this?

I was thinking the very same thing. I like how they diverted the problem away from the real issue to benefit them - sarcasm.

Re: Developers are burned out, quitting jobs and creating a crisis for recruiters

#103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or more commonly: Stocks decline today on news of unemployment. I sure feel sad for those stocks.

Or "no damage to car after cyclist killed in traffic accident"

LOL

Re: Developers are burned out, quitting jobs and creating a crisis for recruiters

#104
post #33
post #15

Not a surprise. When senior devs leave an org due to mismanagement or other reasons, it creates more work for those left behind. And it's become extremely difficult to find replacement for the seniors that left. Senior devs are nowhere to be found through regular applicant pipelines. They seem to be leaving as a result of reaching out to friends/former colleagues. Also relevant: - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id…

People really don't talk about landslide risk enough. A project with a high tech debt or operations burden is at high risk of losing enough people to zero out the project. Lose one or two people at the same time and suddenly the rest of the team is in an untenable situation. Maybe they were thinking casually about leaving before, but now that their burden has increased by 30% its more serious. Then you just keep losi…

I have confessed this before and it’s appropriate to confess it again here: I have worked places where there was an onerous task that three of us split. When one of those quits, I’m looking to leave too. Not only does being the last one take away any illusions of autonomy you might have had, but it also makes you feel guilty for leaving because you know that some things won’t get done at all.

My body metabolizes guilt readily, by converting it into resentment. “I have to be here and I hate you for it.” Is not a room anyone should walk into if there’s another doorway.

Re: Developers are burned out, quitting jobs and creating a crisis for recruiters

#105
post #14

It points to developer apathy. I sometimes wonder if that's just the global feeling at the moment. Everyone that's working on widget X suddenly doesn't care because of all the crises going on. Rampant inflation, extreme inequality. By continuing to work on widget x they are just supporting more of the same. Think people want society to change a bit before moving forward with being happy.

Good insight. Thanks for the different take on this situation. After thinking about this, I tend to agree. This could be happening in the background, unconsciously, without anyone noticing. Maybe this will be the on of the catalyst's for change.

Re: Developers are burned out, quitting jobs and creating a crisis for recruiters

#106
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like to think IT is mostly inhabited by really smart ppl. One thing really smart ppl have in common is that they see the world as it is. They are aware of thr glaring issues incompetence has brought upon this world. And that causes depression. Looking at the future there is literally nothing to be happy about. Ppl are slowly preparing for civil wars, power outages, food shortage and worse. And those are ppl you wou…

>One thing really smart ppl have in common is that they see the world as it is. This is completely false. Isaac Newton spent more time studying alchemy and biblical prophecy than he did on mathematics and physics.

Are you saying alchemy and spirituality is not as important as science? If that's the case, good luck with that view. Understanding and contemplating on both creates a Wisdom. Intelligence can only take you so far, the world is way bigger than science could ever be capable of containing.

Re: Developers are burned out, quitting jobs and creating a crisis for recruiters

#107
post #14

It points to developer apathy. I sometimes wonder if that's just the global feeling at the moment. Everyone that's working on widget X suddenly doesn't care because of all the crises going on. Rampant inflation, extreme inequality. By continuing to work on widget x they are just supporting more of the same. Think people want society to change a bit before moving forward with being happy.

Thank you for succinctly articulating what I was trying to say long-form.

I wallow in the negative as a result of decades of troubleshooting and negative reinforcement loops making me risk-averse. I'm over 50% confident that I will find a fatal flaw within seconds of using any tech for the first time. This is the lens through which I see the entire tech community and all of its failings. Loosely, the tech community appears to be racing towards empire, while I've always felt a kinship with rebels.

So, here are 10 off-the-cuff alternative future achievements that I thought were going to happen after the internet arrived in the mid-90s. I believe that our suffering today is due to living in this bizarro future that we got caught up in instead:

1. Developers get connected with real capital on the order of a year's income to get "real work done" outside of the mainstream venture capital and corporate structure.

2. Developers are able to spend their time automating processes instead of having to do the same thing by hand over and over again.

3. Developers live on a modest income under $100,000 in 2022 dollars, requiring less than a 10 hour weekly commitment to meet basic expenses, with the rest of their time going towards getting real work done.

4. Developers have the time to automate such things as solar power, hydroponic robotic gardens, electric transportation, hempcrete buildings, etc so they can put in short one-time risks for a lifetime of reward.

5. Developers are taught how to set boundaries and communicate from the beginning, to prevent getting stretched too thin and burning out after putting in tremendous effort for months/years of their lives thanklessly.

6. Developers have the time to have hobbies outside of video games, to write a blog or travel or exercise or take care of their health or do any number of positive things instead of dying prematurely of preventably illnesses.

7. Developers live in a society where people are informed and educated so that they don't have to spend nearly the entirety of their time performing basic troubleshooting for people who are technologically illiterate.

8. Developers are free of the infinite liability of obligation after helping someone troubleshoot something or working somewhere that was their meal ticket at some point in the past.

9. Developers have a life outside of work, free from artifical deadlines and the expectation that they will perform tasks in a timely manner that were assigned by people who can't do them.

10. Developers have the personal freedom to write languages and frameworks they feel born to make, instead of facing a lifetime of putting up with the lacklusters tools which hold them back.

I could go on literally forever so I'll stop there. The thought of signing on for yet another 40 hour job that steals the entirety of my time and motivation makes me feel sick. I hesitate to say these things, because it's like speaking with a therapist. Some things are so negative that they're unthinkinkable, unsayable, as the very act of uttering them can shatter illusions and dissuade a young person from working towards their goals.

My goal here is not to be negative, but to find a way to get back to the positive vibes of the late 90s, before the Dot Bomb and 9/11, when the future was so bright that we had to wear shades. This 20 years of dogmatic idiology and wealth inequality and all of the other unenlightened greed and ego-driven kool-aid drinking is unsustainable and has got to end. We can choose a future of windowless warehouses filled with human drones, or one with self-actualization where machines do the work and we all reap the benefits with dignity as human beings.

If none of this applies to you, good for you! Go pay it forward and liberate one of the countless millions of people trapped in the rat race who are so tired of it all that it takes everything they have just to make it through each day.

Re: Developers are burned out, quitting jobs and creating a crisis for recruiters

#108
post #15

Not a surprise. When senior devs leave an org due to mismanagement or other reasons, it creates more work for those left behind. And it's become extremely difficult to find replacement for the seniors that left. Senior devs are nowhere to be found through regular applicant pipelines. They seem to be leaving as a result of reaching out to friends/former colleagues. Also relevant: - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id…

Yeah, I'm currently a junior who's senior left about 6-7 months ago. Their absence has been very heavily noticed, and the company has been unable to hire someone with even half of his knowledge/experience base.

Re: Developers are burned out, quitting jobs and creating a crisis for recruiters

#109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I spent 8 hours on a Saturday the other weekend on a take home assignment and then spent most of Sunday regretting it and angry with myself that I'd let that eat into my weekend so much. The least companies could do is compensate this useless labor. Interviewing also has been putting me into a spot where I'm starting to wonder if changing professions entirely may be less work. I wish this profession would grow up. Th…

> The least companies could do is compensate this useless labor. I've found having the company present when you do the test, i.e. screensharing or whatever, is a good compromise. You can talk about the problem, and you know they've got some (time) skin in the game. The tests become shorter when this is the case, e.g. 1 hour rather than 8 hours. Because they don't want to spend 8 hours sitting there while you do the t…

> You can talk about the problem, and you know they've got some (time) skin in the game.

Perhaps it's better than being ghosted on a take home assignment, but am I the only one who thinks this is crap as well?

It sounds great on paper, for sure. But in my experience, talking about a problem ends up being like talking to a tree trunk. They say "we want to see how you'd work with us", but when I try and engage the interviewer (without asking them for the answers, obviously), I almost always get blank stares and it's super awkward. Even if I just speak out loud as I'm reasoning things, it's still weird as hell.

Yes, it could work if the interviewer was skilled at playing the role of a collaborator, but almost none of them are. Don't tell me to do a task as if doing teamwork on the job without even faking the teamwork part.

To your point, think the advantage is that they can't ghost you or overwork you that way.

Re: Developers are burned out, quitting jobs and creating a crisis for recruiters

#110
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People really don't talk about landslide risk enough. A project with a high tech debt or operations burden is at high risk of losing enough people to zero out the project. Lose one or two people at the same time and suddenly the rest of the team is in an untenable situation. Maybe they were thinking casually about leaving before, but now that their burden has increased by 30% its more serious. Then you just keep losi…

I don't think that's unavoidable, but businesses typically fail to correctly reassess the value of those employees. If the business responded appropriately, I think people could be convinced to stay. E.g. if they offered: 1: An instant promotion with raise for anyone not at the max level for an IC, to acknowledge that they are now the most knowledgeable people on that product. 2: Double pay until those slots are fill…

Especially when they are going to have to spend that much to get new hires in anyway, who still have to get caught up to speed, it seems like this would make a lot of sense.

But I can understand how it is difficult for a business leader to convince himself that this jump in cost is, in fact, required. Maybe the person will just stick around? (And indeed, they do fairly often.)

Post reply on HN