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Having no experience can be better than having the wrong experience

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Re: Having no experience can be better than having the wrong experience

#101
I believe this has to do with the perception and signaling of potential.

Potential, when unrealized, contains more parts unknown than the known. You can measure some things - like GPA, school ranking, standardized test results, and so on.

If/when you do get employed, then that also becomes a new measure - and to some degree, lays the foundation for other speculation.

Put this way: If someone opts to work for a "C" level company, does this change the expected value of that candidate? If the candidate is "A" level, why would they join a "C" level company? The simplest answer for an observer, would probably be that they are simply not "A" level material, and probably closer to where they've been.

IMO - that's flawed thinking, as there are tons of variables, but it seems to be how many think. It's like with sports - often times top clubs will get top talent.

But yeah, back to the perception. Now you have a new datapoint - which could could drag you down - while your competitors still have the benefit of less information. These candidates can leverage their potential more, simply because the people hiring know less about them, and will have to take a larger chance / risk on hiring them. But as long as their other measures are ok, that might be worth it.

Re: Having no experience can be better than having the wrong experience

#103
post #37

Yes, it's called ageism. Young and fresh is perceived as better than experienced because some bozo will make the argument that they've been doing software engineering "wrong".

if anything the ageism goes in the other direction IMO - "experienced" commands a salary premium even when their actual skill and useful experience is no better than a fresh grad.

Re: Having no experience can be better than having the wrong experience

#104

This is how Disney tends to or used to operate its theme parks. If you're coming from another theme park chances are you have been trained incorrectly meaning a person with no experience has the advantage. Not saying I agree or disagree, but I can understand why someone could think otherwise.

I can see this happening, having worked with former Disney people (back office finance type stuff). Almost every day, "well at Disney we did it this way..." even years removed from there. Granted, sometimes the Disney Way was better! But other times I'd have to say, "that's not a bad idea, but unfortunately we don't yet have the resources or reputation of Disney to make a similar tactic work for this project."

Re: Having no experience can be better than having the wrong experience

#105
post #99

I generally enjoy Dan Luu’s advice, but IMO it’s best approached with the understanding that his professional and social network is somewhat of a bubble that doesn’t reflect the average person. Specifically, he cites a statistic that 50% of the people with “no experience” he knows are getting ML and other such jobs at Big Tech companies. In this case, I think he’s likely pre-filtering his sample set to people with si…

> Most people really do have to pivot up through some more average jobs first before landing the Big Tech jobs with huge paychecks. But the assertion here is that too many “pivoting up” jobs are a negative indicator. (An “upper class” programmer wouldn’t spend time in the “lower” classes.) Not saying I agree or disagree with this, but the existence of a class system in tech jobs is the OP’s central point. Edit: The O…

As advice for hiring managers this twitter thread is very actionable: stop judging people harshly for working their way up.

As advice for candidates who want to work at TrendyCo outside of what's itself a very elite "class" of people he anecdotally knows, it's not very useful: "try for that exciting job you want, and if you can't get it then, sure, take any job." Here's the problem with that advice: the class system is already in play before even your first job.

What colleges do you think fancy tech employers hang out at and recruit at? What internships do you think are going to get your resume past their initial screen? Things like "Microsoft stack, not relevant" and "low profile school" are already a problem for many.

(The broader problem with wanting to work at TrendyCo is that by definition so does everyone else so they're going to be drowning in applications and have to resort to some stupid/arbitrary process to filter things down.)

Re: Having no experience can be better than having the wrong experience

#106
Imagine you are building a weight lifting team. You want strong people who are willing to work hard.

Someone from the US Olympic marathon team applies! Wow! This guy is really good athlete. But..clearly his experience is with long distance running, not short intense bursts. He likely won’t be a good fit.

Same thing with companies, just more nuanced.

Re: Having no experience can be better than having the wrong experience

#107
I am kind of living by this; I really don't see how a "menial" job experience transfers onto "exciting" jobs. If you want to do ML or program computer graphics, 5 years of writing CRUD code in Python will probably not do wonders for you. Unless of course before that you had scarce programming experience, and even then I don't see why would you need to sit all of those 5 years out. Seems like this kind of advice boils down to "dress for the job you want...".

Re: Having no experience can be better than having the wrong experience

#108
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "I work for the highest bidder" Uhm, I find people like these are actually the easiest to keep. They know their price and define it. You know what to expect.

There is a difference between (A) a skilled expert who takes pride in their craft, and understandably goes with whichever employer appreciates their skills and compensates accordingly, vs (B) a middle-of-the-pack journeyman who just DGAF about their work and treats all jobs as equally disposable and replaceable (these are also the types of people who are likely to try out /r/overemployed, cuz why not). We may all pre…

You simply won’t get (A) in some industries. People love making things like games, not boring CRUD apps driven by people outside of development who also resemble (B).

These views are always short-sighted like that.

Re: Having no experience can be better than having the wrong experience

#109
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What should a new grad do to avoid starting at the wrong company? Stay unemployed?

Find a job at a company before graduation. But basically, go somewhere that isn't a black mark on your resume. I mean, there are obvious companies like Veritas, IBM, Symantec, Oracle, Cisco, HP (not Aruba), PornHub, ... which should be avoided because they have, for good or for bad, poor reputations for the junior candidates coming out of them (senior is quite a bit better - if they still code, which you have to watc…

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Re: Having no experience can be better than having the wrong experience

#110

Imagine you are building a weight lifting team. You want strong people who are willing to work hard. Someone from the US Olympic marathon team applies! Wow! This guy is really good athlete. But..clearly his experience is with long distance running, not short intense bursts. He likely won’t be a good fit. Same thing with companies, just more nuanced.

The marathon runner’s experience is so different from what’s expected from a weight lifter, the two things won’t interfere.

My favourite example of this is performers with a background in dancing who then go on to do martial arts scenes in films. It’s many of the same movements, and being a dancer gets you a large part of the way there for choreographed fight scenes, but then you get to the details, and they’ve spent so much time training to move with a certain softness and gracefulness that the snappier, more explosive movement in martial arts becomes incredibly difficult for them. This is especially obvious with kicks, both in terms of leg movement and foot posture.

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