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Amazon instructs New York workers “don't sign” union cards

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Re: Amazon instructs New York workers “don't sign” union cards

#101

Post by dcolkitt »

photochemsyn wrote: post #10

Realistically an Amazon-wide union is the only way Amazon workers are going to get decent wage increases. If the USA is going to allow manufacturers to outsource the majority of well-paid (~$30/hr avg) manufacturing jobs to Mexico and China, without having any cross-border capital flow penalities (neoliberal globalism in a nutshell), then the major employers like Amazon and Walmart are going to have to double their w…

> If the USA is going to allow manufacturers to outsource the majority of well-paid (~$30/hr avg) manufacturing jobs to Mexico and China

What? You think overseas manufacturers are paying $30 an hour?

It wasn't high-skilled manufacturing that was outsourced. Welders and machinists still have near zero unemployment and make about as much as a software engineer. It was low skilled manufacturing jobs that were outsourced to China. Those jobs never paid anywhere close to $30/hour even in the heyday of unionized American manufacturing.

Re: Amazon instructs New York workers “don't sign” union cards

#102

Post by yardie »

koolba wrote: post #57
yardie wrote: post #23

> By signing a card or filling out an online authorization form, you are authorizing the ALU to speak on your behalf. Yeah, they were great at listening before. Also, where are these unions where the people in it aren't the people it represents. Recently, a school board election ad, "we have to stop the teachers union and start listening to teachers." Well, who the hell is in the teachers union if not teachers?

> Well, who the hell is in the teachers union if not teachers? Professional bureaucrats. Teachers unions in public schools are the worst. They hold our childrens’ futures hostage and get paid out by politicians buying votes, who pass the bill to the next generation.

> They hold our childrens’ futures hostage and get paid out by politicians buying votes, who pass the bill to the next generation.

Are you confusing the school board with the teachers union? One sets curriculum, class size, and budget. The later really only influences salary, benefits, and working hours.

Re: Amazon instructs New York workers “don't sign” union cards

#104

Post by drstewart »

somehnguy wrote: post #71
ekianjo wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> he only way Amazon workers are going to get decent wage increases. If everyone gets paid tomorrow 100 USD/hour, everything around you will start costing 10x more. Look at Switzerland.

1. Who is asking for $100/hr at this level? 2. Maybe CEOs and executives don’t need to pay themselves such absurd salaries, that would probably help. What a strange comment imo. I can’t take the ‘everything will go up!’ stance seriously while higher ups are buying 10 houses and private jets. The wage gap is atrocious. By the way, Switzerland’s GDP is 748 billion vs the United States’ 20.94 trillion. Comparing them li…

>Maybe CEOs and executives don’t need to pay themselves such absurd salaries, that would probably help

Can you show your work here? Assume Amazon executives cut their salaries to 0, how much extra would they be able to pay workers?

Re: Amazon instructs New York workers “don't sign” union cards

#105

Post by hellotomyrars »

q1w2 wrote: post #85
jaclaz wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I may be wrong, but besides and before the wage increases, it seems to me like the priority would be for decent working conditions, if what is published from time to time on media is actually true, the biggest issues are about lack of (normal, decent) pauses or rest periods, continuous summoning for increases in productivity, total control on the workers, etc.

> if what is published from time to time on media is actually true That's a big IF. Unions were invented after the onset of the industrial revolution to combat truly unsafe work conditions in industrial settings where worker's dying was common. OSHA did away with all that. The current generation of "bad work condition" complaints is around getting adequate bathroom breaks.

What rock are you living under? Plenty of the documented absolute nightmare of working for Amazon in their warehouses is corroborated by their own internal analysis. Unions are for more than just making sure people don't die when doing their job. The union I am a member of more than doubled the wages of its members after its first 12 years of existence. Crucially it also ensures twice yearly cost of living adjustments. It is the only way for labor to have a meaningful negotiating position. There are shitty unions out there, but there are a lot of shitty employers too. Amazon's internal reporting shows they're going to exhaust the labor pool in several areas because they've cycled through everyone who could possibly work at the warehouses and fulfillment centers. People aren't leaving Amazon because they aren't allowed to use the bathroom. They're leaving Amazon because it is dehumanizing and miserable. Funny how the people who make the lowest wages have to put up with the most shit.

Re: Amazon instructs New York workers “don't sign” union cards

#106

Post by Spooky23 »

q1w2 wrote: post #85
jaclaz wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I may be wrong, but besides and before the wage increases, it seems to me like the priority would be for decent working conditions, if what is published from time to time on media is actually true, the biggest issues are about lack of (normal, decent) pauses or rest periods, continuous summoning for increases in productivity, total control on the workers, etc.

> if what is published from time to time on media is actually true That's a big IF. Unions were invented after the onset of the industrial revolution to combat truly unsafe work conditions in industrial settings where worker's dying was common. OSHA did away with all that. The current generation of "bad work condition" complaints is around getting adequate bathroom breaks.

OSHA is always thrown around as either an overbearing force of oppression or a magical savior of the worker by anti-union people.

The reality is that it’s a toothless tiger by design. Many states do their own enforcement, and don’t exactly prioritize it — IIRC, North Carolina has 20% of the inspectors that it says it needs.

I’m sure your cushy IT gig requires you to stand for 6 hours without taking a piss. Try it sometime before attacking others.

Re: Amazon instructs New York workers “don't sign” union cards

#107

Post by SnowHill9902 »

photochemsyn wrote: post #10

Realistically an Amazon-wide union is the only way Amazon workers are going to get decent wage increases. If the USA is going to allow manufacturers to outsource the majority of well-paid (~$30/hr avg) manufacturing jobs to Mexico and China, without having any cross-border capital flow penalities (neoliberal globalism in a nutshell), then the major employers like Amazon and Walmart are going to have to double their w…

$30 is 3 days worth of payment in some countries.

Re: Amazon instructs New York workers “don't sign” union cards

#108

Post by ekianjo »

somehnguy wrote: post #71
ekianjo wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> he only way Amazon workers are going to get decent wage increases. If everyone gets paid tomorrow 100 USD/hour, everything around you will start costing 10x more. Look at Switzerland.

1. Who is asking for $100/hr at this level? 2. Maybe CEOs and executives don’t need to pay themselves such absurd salaries, that would probably help. What a strange comment imo. I can’t take the ‘everything will go up!’ stance seriously while higher ups are buying 10 houses and private jets. The wage gap is atrocious. By the way, Switzerland’s GDP is 748 billion vs the United States’ 20.94 trillion. Comparing them li…

> 1. Who is asking for $100/hr at this level?

Why not? If you can double every few years eventually you will get to 100 dollars. And if you claim that everyone needs to make decent wages, who is to define what "decent" is supposed to be? People will always be asking for more, never less.

> 2. Maybe CEOs and executives don’t need to pay themselves such absurd salaries, that would probably help.

Even if CEOs gave up their whole salary tomorrow, it would not change the pay of people working in very large companies with dozens of thousands or hundred of thousands of employees.

Re: Amazon instructs New York workers “don't sign” union cards

#109

Post by 0n0n0m0uz »

People nowadays have no memory of the decades of struggle, sacrifice to win the rights we currently have. Unions are the most effective tool the working class has to affect change where they spend a majority of their waking life. No wonder why its demonized at every possible instance.

Re: Amazon instructs New York workers “don't sign” union cards

#110

Post by 0n0n0m0uz »

q1w2 wrote: post #85
jaclaz wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I may be wrong, but besides and before the wage increases, it seems to me like the priority would be for decent working conditions, if what is published from time to time on media is actually true, the biggest issues are about lack of (normal, decent) pauses or rest periods, continuous summoning for increases in productivity, total control on the workers, etc.

> if what is published from time to time on media is actually true That's a big IF. Unions were invented after the onset of the industrial revolution to combat truly unsafe work conditions in industrial settings where worker's dying was common. OSHA did away with all that. The current generation of "bad work condition" complaints is around getting adequate bathroom breaks.

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