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Eating horsemeat in France

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Re: Eating horsemeat in France

#101

Post by rapnie »

seanwilson wrote: post #94
12ian34 wrote: post #31

When I lived in NL, I took a trip to Maastricht which is a beautiful place right in the South and tried a popular local dish - Zoervleis[0] which is traditionally horse meat. It was delicious. It always amuses me that when I tell this story, it's often met with disgust - even by meat-eaters! "But, how could you eat horse! They're so nice!". Yeah... you eat beef, have you ever met a cow up close? They're also lovely c…

> It always amuses me that when I tell this story, it's often met with disgust - even by meat-eaters! "But, how could you eat horse! They're so nice!". Yeah... you eat beef, have you ever met a cow up close? They're also lovely creatures! I see this as double-standards - similar to how most meat-eaters also seem so disgusted by the idea of eating dogs in certain parts of Asia. Doesn't this more indicate that many peo…

> Doesn't this more indicate that many people deep-down know that eating animals is wrong

I am severely limiting my meat intake, both from environmental as well as animal welfare pov. But what you express is an entirely cultural opinion. Humans are by nature omnivore animals. They always ate meat. But we do it now on industrial scale, eating way too much. There's very few hunter-gatherers in their traditional habitat driving a spear to the wild animal's neck left.

Re: Eating horsemeat in France

#102

Post by foobiekr »

kodah wrote: post #100
collegeburner wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

tbh i dont get why people arent ok eating horse or dog. i've had both and they're fine, like why is this a problem? i will be the first to call out veganism but i also have literally been lectured by meat eaters about how me eating those 2 is wrong and then they have eaten a burger or steak in the same day .

Animals that are both higher intelligence in our perception and closer to us day to day will fall into the category of disgust, imo. For instance, I've had dogs my whole life. They're pretty deep creatures with emotions, intelligence, and personalities all their own. If you tell me that you ate what I have a personal connection to, what I consider my family - It's hard not to look at you in disgust. Similar to the di…

Cows have much larger brains than dogs and are quite intelligent, and so are pigs. The "dogs are special" argument is a familiarity thing or perhaps a statement that dogs evolved to more effectively manipulate human emotions.

Re: Eating horsemeat in France

#103

Post by somewhereoutth »

seanwilson wrote: post #94
12ian34 wrote: post #31

When I lived in NL, I took a trip to Maastricht which is a beautiful place right in the South and tried a popular local dish - Zoervleis[0] which is traditionally horse meat. It was delicious. It always amuses me that when I tell this story, it's often met with disgust - even by meat-eaters! "But, how could you eat horse! They're so nice!". Yeah... you eat beef, have you ever met a cow up close? They're also lovely c…

> It always amuses me that when I tell this story, it's often met with disgust - even by meat-eaters! "But, how could you eat horse! They're so nice!". Yeah... you eat beef, have you ever met a cow up close? They're also lovely creatures! I see this as double-standards - similar to how most meat-eaters also seem so disgusted by the idea of eating dogs in certain parts of Asia. Doesn't this more indicate that many peo…

Really deep down, i.e. at the level of hunger and what looks tasty to your body, eating animals is very right. They are a fantastic source of nutrition.

However, we also like to domesticate animals, as companions and helpers. Hence the conflict.

We eat way too much meat, but strict vegetarianism and especially veganism does not scale to the whole population of the planet - animals are simply too efficient at converting what we can grow everywhere but can't eat (grass mostly) to what we can eat. Simply, an exclusively plant based diet would require the elimination (by starvation?) of who knows, 90% of the world population?

Of course, strict vegetarianism and especially veganism is not much more than social signalling for a particular and narrow demographic - the cultural preferences and tribalism you allude to.

Re: Eating horsemeat in France

#104

Post by klez »

madduci wrote: post #84
bipson wrote: post #10

Eating horse meat was very common in central Europe before the big wars. In WWI and WWII even more so, horses were declared essential for the war in axis countries, and eating them became illegal. In Italy horse meat picked right up again after WWII, but in Austria and Germany people forgot about the reasons it seems and it stayed unacceptable/frowned upon. You can find (excellent) horse meat products in western Aust…

In Italy, at least in South, horse meat is still being consumed today.

At least in Venice we still eat, for example, frayed dry horse meat ("sfilacci di cavallo"), which is more difficult to find in Rome, where I now live.

Last Christmas I bought by mistake a horse sopressa[0] thinking it was pork and bought it down to Rome. My in-laws were surprised to say the least :)

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sopressa

Re: Eating horsemeat in France

#105

Post by rapnie »

kodah wrote: post #100
collegeburner wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

tbh i dont get why people arent ok eating horse or dog. i've had both and they're fine, like why is this a problem? i will be the first to call out veganism but i also have literally been lectured by meat eaters about how me eating those 2 is wrong and then they have eaten a burger or steak in the same day .

Animals that are both higher intelligence in our perception and closer to us day to day will fall into the category of disgust, imo. For instance, I've had dogs my whole life. They're pretty deep creatures with emotions, intelligence, and personalities all their own. If you tell me that you ate what I have a personal connection to, what I consider my family - It's hard not to look at you in disgust. Similar to the di…

> Animals that are both higher intelligence in our perception and closer to us day to day will fall into the category of disgust, imo.

Think in general this holds to animals seen as pets. Like in the West with adorable little guinea pigs, which in the Andes Mountain regions are a food source. And it makes sense too if you live high in the mountains that get snowed in in the winter, to have a bunch of them living in your home.

Re: Eating horsemeat in France

#106

Post by seanwilson »

rapnie wrote: post #101
seanwilson wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It always amuses me that when I tell this story, it's often met with disgust - even by meat-eaters! "But, how could you eat horse! They're so nice!". Yeah... you eat beef, have you ever met a cow up close? They're also lovely creatures! I see this as double-standards - similar to how most meat-eaters also seem so disgusted by the idea of eating dogs in certain parts of Asia. Doesn't this more indicate that many peo…

> Doesn't this more indicate that many people deep-down know that eating animals is wrong I am severely limiting my meat intake, both from environmental as well as animal welfare pov. But what you express is an entirely cultural opinion. Humans are by nature omnivore animals. They always ate meat. But we do it now on industrial scale, eating way too much. There's very few hunter-gatherers in their traditional habitat…

> I am severely limiting my meat intake, both from environmental as well as animal welfare pov. But what you express is an entirely cultural opinion.

I think claims about environmental damage and animal welfare are objective, not opinion.

> Humans are by nature omnivore animals. They always ate meat. But we do it now on industrial scale, eating way too much.

This is just naturalistic fallacy. We do lots of things in our modern lifestyles the last 100 years we never used to and stopped doing things we used to commonly do before that. Humans don't require meat to thrive any more plus climate change is a new problem we have to adapt to.

Re: Eating horsemeat in France

#107

Post by bombcar »

seanwilson wrote: post #94
12ian34 wrote: post #31

When I lived in NL, I took a trip to Maastricht which is a beautiful place right in the South and tried a popular local dish - Zoervleis[0] which is traditionally horse meat. It was delicious. It always amuses me that when I tell this story, it's often met with disgust - even by meat-eaters! "But, how could you eat horse! They're so nice!". Yeah... you eat beef, have you ever met a cow up close? They're also lovely c…

> It always amuses me that when I tell this story, it's often met with disgust - even by meat-eaters! "But, how could you eat horse! They're so nice!". Yeah... you eat beef, have you ever met a cow up close? They're also lovely creatures! I see this as double-standards - similar to how most meat-eaters also seem so disgusted by the idea of eating dogs in certain parts of Asia. Doesn't this more indicate that many peo…

More likely that we've been disconnected from the realities of the food chain; in general people didn't eat horses because they're more valuable as work animals vs meat.

Farmers et al who deal with animals day in and day out don't seem to have much problem also eating them.

Re: Eating horsemeat in France

#108

Post by bombcar »

rapnie wrote: post #97
12ian34 wrote: post #31

When I lived in NL, I took a trip to Maastricht which is a beautiful place right in the South and tried a popular local dish - Zoervleis[0] which is traditionally horse meat. It was delicious. It always amuses me that when I tell this story, it's often met with disgust - even by meat-eaters! "But, how could you eat horse! They're so nice!". Yeah... you eat beef, have you ever met a cow up close? They're also lovely c…

Also NL. I feel that the opinions have shifted last couple of decades. Anectdotal maybe, when I was younger eating horse meat wasn't something one thought about much. My mother used to go into town especially for buying horse steak, because "they are way better than cow beef steak". Recently I asked her if she still buys it. "Horse meat? No!". She forgot about how we always ate it.

In the US at least there's a perception of it being "lower quality/class" meat, so that may also play into it (especially in media, etc).

Re: Eating horsemeat in France

#109

Post by bombcar »

jules wrote: post #69
12ian34 wrote: post #31

When I lived in NL, I took a trip to Maastricht which is a beautiful place right in the South and tried a popular local dish - Zoervleis[0] which is traditionally horse meat. It was delicious. It always amuses me that when I tell this story, it's often met with disgust - even by meat-eaters! "But, how could you eat horse! They're so nice!". Yeah... you eat beef, have you ever met a cow up close? They're also lovely c…

If I'm not mistaken, the preparation of the dish (meat boiled in vinegar for several hours, then sweetened up with gingerbread and reduced apple juice) was traditionally intended to tenderise the tough meat of old farm horses that had been used for ploughing the land. Almost all restaurants prepare the dish with beef nowadays.

Many old dishes are like this - slow cooking, for example, really comes into its own when you're slow cooking a egg-laying chicken that is 3-5 years old vs the "grown for meat" ones these days that are barely 8 weeks.

Re: Eating horsemeat in France

#110

Post by hcarvalhoalves »

somewhereoutth wrote: post #103
seanwilson wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It always amuses me that when I tell this story, it's often met with disgust - even by meat-eaters! "But, how could you eat horse! They're so nice!". Yeah... you eat beef, have you ever met a cow up close? They're also lovely creatures! I see this as double-standards - similar to how most meat-eaters also seem so disgusted by the idea of eating dogs in certain parts of Asia. Doesn't this more indicate that many peo…

Really deep down, i.e. at the level of hunger and what looks tasty to your body, eating animals is very right. They are a fantastic source of nutrition. However, we also like to domesticate animals, as companions and helpers. Hence the conflict. We eat way too much meat, but strict vegetarianism and especially veganism does not scale to the whole population of the planet - animals are simply too efficient at converti…

> We eat way too much meat, but strict vegetarianism and especially veganism does not scale to the whole population of the planet - animals are simply too efficient at converting what we can grow everywhere but can't eat (grass mostly) to what we can eat. Simply, an exclusively plant based diet would require the elimination (by starvation?) of who knows, 90% of the world population?

Which is not true at all, most meat is cow beef, pig and poultry fed with grains. Grains that we have to grow, and take land and water away from growing other things that could feed us directly.

This would only be true if everyone ate grass-fed beef - which would be premium and 10x more expensive- and a lot more goat and similar that can be fed low quality grass.

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