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My experience writing and selling a short story

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Re: My experience writing and selling a short story

#101

Post by anonwriter42 »

ghaff wrote: post #76
onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would say you have to be in the top 0.5% to make minimum wage as a fiction writer. If you want to write listicles, sure you don't need as much talent and you can make above minimum wage.

I'm actually skeptical that (mostly) young people writing listicles on content farms are making minimum wage--or at least much above it.

I've met people who've worked at these. They pay more than 25 dollars. Around a couple hundred. If you don't live in a third world country you can't afford this lifestyle, which leads to the poor quality you see due to lack of English proficiency.

Nowadays, the content farm has become websites like Webcomics and Webnovels which offer a variety of tools for authors to be able to make a living. In reality like the pre-existing mangaka business, you will never be able to have a stable amount of money each year as you struggle to keep afloat you cannot improve or get better. The game has been rigged by the publishers since the 80s. And only the very elite are given the opportunity to succeed in the correct social circles. For which most people will never be given the opportunity to even partake in. You can apply for workshops and the naught but if you aren't from the right family or friends with the right people your chances are close to none. It's the same in the music industry and pervades everywhere even in technology.

Re: My experience writing and selling a short story

#102

Post by egypturnash »

gizajob wrote: post #22

It's a pretty terrible, hackneyed, non-story, now I've read it. Flag me down all you like. Seems like the author is more interested in the stats about writing than the actual writing. Some simple advice would be to read some Neal Stephenson, Paul Auster, and China Mieville for starters, not Michael Crichton. Good writing is a serious art and craft. It's irrelevant how many hours a specific work takes down to the seco…

It's irrelevant how many hours a specific work takes down to the second

I am a professional artist and I have found it very helpful to track my work at the resolution of a half an hour. I can quote prices with confidence that I’ll make a decent wage for the time I expect them to take. I can look at how much time I’ve spent so far and decide it’s time to stop noodling on one part and make sure other parts don’t get neglected before I do a final polish pass. I can experiment with new working methods and see if the get me to something that meets my standards faster, once I get used to them. It helps me keep my life from being dominated by projects that sprawl out of control, too.

It may not be relevant to anyone looking at the final art how long it took, but it’s super relevant to me. And keeping similar data is relevant to anyone who wants to try and make a serious go at doing a thing.

Re: My experience writing and selling a short story

#103

Post by anonwriter42 »

oauch wrote: post #10
paulpauper wrote: post #2

writing has to be among the worst ways to make money, sorry to say you need top .5% talent and work ethic to maybe earn a lower-middle class salary A labor of love, as it's said

I'd be curious if short fiction writing was more lucrative several decades ago when literary magazines were a larger force. Was it more possible to survive as an independent writer before, or have the economics of writing always been so terrible?

In recent years this has changed to screenplays and sites like the blacklist, where every unexperienced writer posts a script for their chance at the megamillions. The reality is that for the most part the site is rigged in favour of those already in the industry and rating are chosen by those with the largest wallets.

Re: My experience writing and selling a short story

#105

Post by jamesjyu »

Barrera wrote: post #99

> I spent 22 hours, 18 minutes, and 47 seconds writing and editing “India World” across 42 sessions in Google Docs. (Not including hours more spent editing on paper, revising the story at workshops, or reading critiques.) Given the quality of the work, I suspect that 2x-5x that many hours were spent on developing and revising the story (the parenthetical part). So let's call it 66 hours total. Later: > 8/27/2020 - RU…

Yep for any reputable publication, the rights revert to the author after some reasonable amount of time. Then they can sell option rights or expand etc however they see fit. (If a pub asks for rights in perpetuity be VERY wary!)

Optioning for TV or film is usually the most lucrative, but can be very difficult, especially for new writers breaking into the field. This is especially true for short stories. One big exception is Arrival, which was based on Ted Chiang’s short story, which have paved the way for other short stories to get optioned in similar fashion.

Re: My experience writing and selling a short story

#106

Post by cubesnooper »

Forgeties79 wrote: post #68
Hayvok wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed, Tor is a very respected publishing house in the sci-fi/fantasy genres. He’s joining company with works like Enders Game, Wheel of Time, Mistborn, and Stormlight Archive, and a dozen more I’m not able to remember off the top of my head.

For those who haven’t read it, Mistborn is next level. Such a great trilogy.

I’m reading the third book right now and so far the series has been a real struggle to get through. In the first two I found the setting mildly interesting, but mixed with uninteresting characters, dialogue, and plot, with writing that was entirely too verbose and with too many repetitive phrases (like “he raised an eyebrow,“ which happens about once a chapter and sometimes even multiple times per page—see also chuckling, rolling eyes, and snorting, which occur at about the same frequency). Clearly not everybody finds this irritating but I definitely did.

I don’t think I had any problems like that with the writing of other fantasy series like Lord of the Rings and A Game of Thrones. Nor with two other trilogies I read for the first time this year, C. S. Lewis’s Space Trilogy and The Three‐Body Problem.

Re: My experience writing and selling a short story

#107

Post by SamoyedFurFluff »

cubesnooper wrote: post #106
Forgeties79 wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For those who haven’t read it, Mistborn is next level. Such a great trilogy.

I’m reading the third book right now and so far the series has been a real struggle to get through. In the first two I found the setting mildly interesting, but mixed with uninteresting characters, dialogue, and plot, with writing that was entirely too verbose and with too many repetitive phrases (like “he raised an eyebrow,“ which happens about once a chapter and sometimes even multiple times per page—see also chuck…

You might like the Machineries of Empire series instead- fascinating world building with serious depth of character and personal stakes. First book is Ninefox Gambit.

Re: My experience writing and selling a short story

#108

Post by SamoyedFurFluff »

leephillips wrote: post #86
ghaff wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People have many different reasons for writing. I've actually had this discussion with authors and you seem to be suggesting that people shouldn't be allowed to accept token payments for work if they aren't dependent on it directly as a full-time occupation. Are you going to ban bloggers etc. in general because they dilute the market for writing at sustainable professional rates? Amateurs (or pros using an activity l…

There is no suggestion of compulsion in my comment. I’m asking that people stop hurting their fellow authors by participating in a race to the bottom, simply because they’re flattered that a for-profit corporation is willing to take their product for essentially no compensation. This has nothing to do with contributing to open-source software, working for nonprofits for a social good, etc. I do all those things. But…

I think you’ve got this a bit twisted, particularly with the notion of for-profit organizations taking with no compensation. Speaking strictly in short fiction, frankly, the vast majority of magazines lose money. Of the magazines that don’t lose money, the vast majority of those don’t make enough to earn the producer/editor(s)/first readers/etc. anything resembling minimum wage. The exceptions are a mere handful: the big 3, Tor, Uncanny Magazine, Clarkesworld, maybe Nature’s Futures section.

Re: My experience writing and selling a short story

#109

Post by leephillips »

SamoyedFurFluff wrote: post #108
leephillips wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no suggestion of compulsion in my comment. I’m asking that people stop hurting their fellow authors by participating in a race to the bottom, simply because they’re flattered that a for-profit corporation is willing to take their product for essentially no compensation. This has nothing to do with contributing to open-source software, working for nonprofits for a social good, etc. I do all those things. But…

I think you’ve got this a bit twisted, particularly with the notion of for-profit organizations taking with no compensation. Speaking strictly in short fiction, frankly, the vast majority of magazines lose money. Of the magazines that don’t lose money, the vast majority of those don’t make enough to earn the producer/editor(s)/first readers/etc. anything resembling minimum wage. The exceptions are a mere handful: the…

Uhh, this thread started with somebody giving their work away to Tor.

Re: My experience writing and selling a short story

#110

Post by SamoyedFurFluff »

gizajob wrote: post #22

It's a pretty terrible, hackneyed, non-story, now I've read it. Flag me down all you like. Seems like the author is more interested in the stats about writing than the actual writing. Some simple advice would be to read some Neal Stephenson, Paul Auster, and China Mieville for starters, not Michael Crichton. Good writing is a serious art and craft. It's irrelevant how many hours a specific work takes down to the seco…

I imagine it took the author much longer to write, revise, etc. the work than it did to write this measurement blog. Where are you getting the notion the author prioritizes measuring their writing time investment vs the writing itself?

It’s okay to just not like a story you know.

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