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Buddhism has found a new institutional home in the West: the corporation

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Re: Buddhism has found a new institutional home in the West: the corporation

#101

Post by matfior »

victornomad wrote: post #22
toyg wrote: post #14

In Italy, in the '90s, we had a popular tv program with comedians doing sketches. One of those sketches was written and interpreted a guy who used to work in important advertising agencies. The sketch had a corporate manager who always started as a calm and devout supporter of buddhist-like tranquility in the workplace, all meditation and zen and care for personal wellbeing; by the end of the sketch his schizophrenic…

I'd love to watch it. Do you mind sharing a link?

There's a couple facebook videos:

https://www.facebook.com/MaiDireGol/videos/tutti-vorremmo-pe...

https://it-it.facebook.com/MaiDireGol/videos/la-filosofia-de...

It was one of my favorite as well!

Re: Buddhism has found a new institutional home in the West: the corporation

#102

Post by CiPHPerCoder »

michaelt wrote: post #81
nabla9 wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reason why you saw what you saw is twofold. 1) You did not see nuns. Formal lineage of nuns died in Theravada lineage hundreds of years ago. Women were wearing white robes right? Those are the robes of novices. You need 5? female nuns to ordain a new nun. Sri Lankan monk, Bhante Henepola Gunaratana (aka Bhante G) asked Tibetan nuns so bootstrap the tradition in Theravada, but it's just starting and there is resis…

> Women are considered less than men in Asian cultures (equality of sexes is new in the West too). Religions are not separate from the culture around them. Sure - but aren't monks and priests also supposed to be a model, demonstrating what a really dedicated, pious follower of the religion should look like?

You're begging the question. Why should monks and priests be a model, rather than a reminder of human nature?

Re: Buddhism has found a new institutional home in the West: the corporation

#103

Post by [deleted] »

throwawayacc2 wrote: post #93

I stopped reading upon seeing at the very stop this “ Silicon Valley is the latest player in a history of Western appropriation of Buddhism” I was very curious about the article. I am wondering if it treats ideas such as “hire fast fire fast” - In a way a concept related to the Buddhist ideas of detachment, or the opposite, “bing your whole self to work” which in a way seems contradictory - you have attachments, cont…

[deleted]

Re: Buddhism has found a new institutional home in the West: the corporation

#104

Post by fendy3002 »

yunohn wrote: post #16
omarfarooq wrote: post #4

How would these people react if they learned that the Buddha said his teachings were to last only 1000 years* if women were not included in the Sangha? And will only last 500 years after women were included?: > “But, Ānanda, if women had not obtained the Going-forth from the home life into homelessness in the Dhamma & Vinaya made known by the Tathāgata, the holy life would have lasted long, the true Dhamma would have…

Disclaimer: I’m an atheist. I don’t believe this is the gotcha that you think it is. Every single school of thought, religion or otherwise, has good and bad parts. Taking the overwhelmingly good aspects of Buddhism to understand how to lead a better life, is not invalidated because the Buddha said one thing you dislike. It’s naivety to desire 100% perfection from everyone/thing.

I don't know why this good advice is downvoted, and looks like mine will too.

I don't understand why people still consider literature written by human with nowadays language to must be either perfect or it's worthless.

Also how they see a form of government that declared they're adopting one religion teaching and using it as argument proof / point.

We will spiralling down to whataboutism soon like this. Cherry picks the good ones are fine, and people do that everyday. Just don't cherry pick a bad one to justify your agenda and your bad action.

Re: Buddhism has found a new institutional home in the West: the corporation

#106

Post by omarfarooq »

nicky0 wrote: post #75
omarfarooq wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Buddha said it is super hard or impossible to achieve Nirvana after 1500-2000 years. Well, that I can agree with. Also according to the Buddha, there are signs that an enlightened being can display to prove their enlightenment. A simple one is that fire does not affect them. To prove his enlightenment, "Ānanda performed a supernatural accomplishment by diving into the earth and appearing on his seat at the council…

You seem to be rather a literalist.

And how should I take those signs of enlightenment then? If not literally then Buddhist scripture is no better than fiction.

Re: Buddhism has found a new institutional home in the West: the corporation

#107

Post by SunlightEdge »

There is a zen buddhist saying "Be careful not to stink of zen". And it can apply both to Buddhism as practised in the west and the east. Its a slightly... provoking saying though, as it may offend other Buddhist practitioners.

Zen Buddhism (from Japan/China) can of course vary greatly from Theravada Buddhism (found in South and South-East Asia). However I would say, that there seems to me much more variety of Buddhist schools in zen Buddhism (Japan) and what they believe and practice than in Buddhism as practised in Thailand, Cambodia etc.

Buddhism is quite fluid even in Asia - but I do think that its right that the Buddhism that is in the west (mostly influenced from Japan zen schools - e.g. soto) came from a more idealised version than is practiced often in the east.

There was an article in the BBC a while back (can try and find if people want) that noted that Buddhism as practised in the west had issues as it promoted a 'cold selfish' side of Buddhism (it pointed to some studies of people that meditate feeling less guilty if they commited a crime). This differed from how its mostly used in Asia where compassion/karmic practice/social works and community are more encouraged.

Personally I wouldn't trust any Buddhist practice organized by a company - the stink of zen would likely be pretty unbearable

Re: Buddhism has found a new institutional home in the West: the corporation

#108

Post by denton-scratch »

coldtea wrote: post #53
omarfarooq wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but Buddhists are not "people of the book" like Abrahamic religions are. You mean modern Buddhists aren't. Early Muslims considered the Buddhists they encountered as "people of the book." Source: https://www.shs-conferences.org/articles/shsconf/pdf/2018/14...

I don't think parent meant that Buddhist's aren't "people of the book" with the muslim meaning of the term. Given the context, he probably meant they aren't "by the book", not strict about their scripture.

Buddhists are not "people of the book" because the Buddha was not a God, and didn't have prophetic access to the teachings of a God. His views on karma and rebirth, for example, were those of the society he sprang from; they were not the result of transcendent insight. He was not some kind of perfect being.

Buddha became more God-like as the centuries passed; some Prajnaparamita and later texts describe him as being the height of seven palm trees, for example. But he's never been considered infallible, like a prophet.

Re: Buddhism has found a new institutional home in the West: the corporation

#109

Post by goodpoint »

md_ wrote: post #99
throwawayacc2 wrote: post #93

I stopped reading upon seeing at the very stop this “ Silicon Valley is the latest player in a history of Western appropriation of Buddhism” I was very curious about the article. I am wondering if it treats ideas such as “hire fast fire fast” - In a way a concept related to the Buddhist ideas of detachment, or the opposite, “bing your whole self to work” which in a way seems contradictory - you have attachments, cont…

I think the key point is that it becomes "appropriation"--vs cultural mixing or exchange--when the ideas are removed of their source context and used in a way that is contrary or even disrespectful of their original intent. I'm far from an expert, but it seems like a reasonable argument to advance that the linkage of Buddhist practices with corporate and material advancement--and the removal of spiritual or ethical c…

Spot on. This is a perfect example of appropriation.

---

Cultural appropriation is the inappropriate or unacknowledged adoption of an element or elements of one culture or identity by members of another culture or identity. This can be controversial when members of a dominant culture appropriate from minority cultures.

According to critics of the practice, cultural appropriation differs from acculturation, assimilation, or equal cultural exchange in that this appropriation is a form of colonialism. When cultural elements are copied from a minority culture by members of a dominant culture, and these elements are used outside of their original cultural context ─ sometimes even against the expressly stated wishes of members of the originating culture – the practice is often received negatively.

---

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_appropriation

EDIT: instead of more stupid downvotes people could bother reading the wikipedia page.

Re: Buddhism has found a new institutional home in the West: the corporation

#110

Post by blippage »

EdwardDiego wrote: post #42

I get a little tired of Western adoption of values or ideas from non-Western cultures being called "appropriation".

I agree. The word "appropriation" heavily connotes an interpretation as theft, and therefore bad. But cultures never exist in a vacuum, there's always cross-pollination, inspiration and adaption of ideas. I see this as a good, rather than bad, thing. Some people make out that their cultural artefacts are theirs, and theirs alone.

But I still see that there is a problem with Buddhism being used in corporate America. It smacks too much of a kind of "spiritual materialism" for want of better words, which is precisely the kind of thing that won't work.

Rather than say "appropriation", I'd say that Buddhism has been "misappropriated" would be an apt description in this instance. I reiterate that words like "appropriation" and "misappropriation" must be used only in rare cases.

Buddhism does have a place in the West, but I'd prefer people to seek guidance from genuine monks rather than laymen who style themselves as "trainers".

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