FBI Child ID App • Hacker News Board

Re: FBI Child ID App

#101

Post by rlt » Wed, Jul 06, 2022, 1:58 PM UTC

TrueGeek wrote: post #58

ceejayoz wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That stat isn't as startling as it seems when you dig in; most of those are custody disputes. https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/most-kidnapped-childr... > But contrary to the dominant narrative, nearly all child abductions are perpetrated by family members. Stranger abductions — certainly alarming and tragic — actually occur with “lightning-strike rarity,” as a report in the journal Criminal Justice Studies put…

That stat is shared among parents so much. "840,000 missing a year" in a nation of 73 million children is interpreted as meaning in any given year you have a 1 in 87 chance of never seeing your child again at any given time. My brother won't return his shopping cart to the shopping cart return area because, in those 30 seconds where his back is turned, someone is likely to take his children. One parent told me they t…

> One parent told me they take it one step further and they won't use passenger door to put their children in the car. Instead, they reach through the car from the driver's door. This way they don't have to walk around the car which would allow someone to take their child.

This is borderline mental illness.

Re: FBI Child ID App

#102

Post by rbanffy » Wed, Jul 06, 2022, 1:58 PM UTC

vanattab wrote: post #85

rbanffy wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No child's fingerprints are getting checked unless some foul play is already suspected. A simple way around it is to have the kid fingerprinted and only release the information if the kid needs to be tracked/located.

I think thier point was even if you registered your kids fingerprints with the police they are not going to go around to every kid in all the dinners checking fingerprints to compare to.

My point was to only release the information to the police if and when the kid needs to be located.

Re: FBI Child ID App

#103

Post by jaywalk » Wed, Jul 06, 2022, 2:00 PM UTC

namelessoracle wrote: post #77

Silica6149 wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting... the FBI could ask or already have a backdoor provided by Apple.

It makes me wonder if downloading this app gives the FBI a ready made backdoor into your iPhone. (not sure if that's even possible with the iOS infrastructure)

Apple would have to be complicit. And at that point, why tie it to an app that almost nobody will download? Just build it into iOS/iCloud and call it a day.

Re: FBI Child ID App

#104

Post by johnbellone » Wed, Jul 06, 2022, 2:00 PM UTC

pettycashstash2 wrote: post #18

While i understand the skepticism, at least they are trying to streamline a process. a quick search reveals the startling statistic: Every 40 seconds, a child goes missing or is abducted in the United States. Approximately 840,000 children are reported missing each year. having access to rapid id/photo. Minutes are precious. I'm no expert but + for fbi, minus for the cynics. Just my 2 cents

I do not think that access to digital photos and measurements has been a limiting factor in finding abductees. In fact, with the ubiquity of cameras on nearly every device nowadays along with social media we routinely see amateurs dig up information faster than authorities are able to put it out officially.

Re: FBI Child ID App

#105

Post by GavinMcG » Wed, Jul 06, 2022, 2:01 PM UTC

rbanffy wrote: post #100

GavinMcG wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the comment is pointing out that if your child is kidnapped and raised elsewhere, there will not be a reason to fingerprint them then for comparison unless there's already a reason to think they may have been kidnapped. That is, it might help on the back end, but the comment is suggesting that mass fingerprinting is not likely to move the needle much.

A small chance is better than no chance. I was answering to the privacy concern, not the effectiveness of the method. It seems like a plausible business model to professionally collect hold biometric data encrypted with the owner's keys, opaque to the party storing the data. It's a bit like the businesses that store umbilical cord stem cells for the very unlikely chance they'll be useful at some point in the future.

Got it. I had thought you were responding to the part you quoted.

Re: FBI Child ID App

#106

Post by Tade0 » Wed, Jul 06, 2022, 2:02 PM UTC

alsetmusic wrote: post #62

There's a television ad that stands out in my memory from when I was a kid (80s). The camera pans across patrons at a diner and the voiceover is about how a kidnapped child was recovered as the camera stops on a young girl (~8yo). The child is described, but the child the camera landed on has different features (hair dyed, cut, whatever). The explanation for how she was identified is that her fingerprints were on fil…

Fingerprints aren't even particularly useful here.

Our irises are considerably more information-dense, accessible and stable over time as evidenced by the famous identification of Sharbat Gula: https://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~jgd1000/afghan.html

A close-up photo should be enough to reliably identify a person years after they went missing.

Re: FBI Child ID App

#107

Post by JTbane » Wed, Jul 06, 2022, 2:02 PM UTC

alsetmusic wrote: post #62

There's a television ad that stands out in my memory from when I was a kid (80s). The camera pans across patrons at a diner and the voiceover is about how a kidnapped child was recovered as the camera stops on a young girl (~8yo). The child is described, but the child the camera landed on has different features (hair dyed, cut, whatever). The explanation for how she was identified is that her fingerprints were on fil…

Yep, I remember getting fingerprinted at a mall. Thanks to my folks for preemptively snitching.

Re: FBI Child ID App

#108

Post by micromacrofoot » Wed, Jul 06, 2022, 2:02 PM UTC

jeezzbo wrote: post #42

micromacrofoot wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the US it was very common. My kids did it at school in the 90s. The point was that if your child goes missing, you have their fingerprints available so they can be used in investigations. In our case, the fingerprints were given to us to take home in case they were ever needed. At the time I didn't think to ask if the police kept a record for themselves, but I doubt it (just because local PD wasn't very organized)…

where did you go to school?

New England.

Re: FBI Child ID App

#109

Post by 13of40 » Wed, Jul 06, 2022, 2:03 PM UTC

micromacrofoot wrote: post #26

Silica6149 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What? Did you ever find out what the fingerprints were used for? This is like taking a DNA sample from child when they're born nowadays, it seems harmless now, but we can already see companies using this kind of data maliciously.

In the US it was very common. My kids did it at school in the 90s. The point was that if your child goes missing, you have their fingerprints available so they can be used in investigations. In our case, the fingerprints were given to us to take home in case they were ever needed. At the time I didn't think to ask if the police kept a record for themselves, but I doubt it (just because local PD wasn't very organized)…

I still have my card from the early 80s, in semi rural Oregon. The way I remember it (with a caveat of me being six) was it was the only copy. I don't think my parents would have done it if the government was keeping one.

Re: FBI Child ID App

#110

Post by r3trohack3r » Wed, Jul 06, 2022, 2:03 PM UTC

> The FBI is not collecting or storing any photos or information that you enter in the app. All data resides solely on your mobile device unless you need to send it to authorities.

If true, this sounds thoughtfully designed.