The art style feels like an homage to Grim Fandango, one of my favorite adventure games. I don't understand the hate at all.
“The joy of sharing has been driven from me“
101–110 of 280 posts
Re: “The joy of sharing has been driven from me“
#102Gamers are the most entitled consumer group I've ever seen. It's astounding. Someone wants to create something, and there's just so much hate and negativity on something that people didn't even pay for. I've seen it on HN also. Someone creates a thing, and then people pour out of the woodwork to lump horrible criticism. No one is asking for blind praise for what they create, but surely there's a middle ground between…
Its a big mix of tech-literacy, lack of empathy in anonymous posts compared to in person interactions, and the main demographic being in peak pubescent angst.
Recently I feel like there's a large performative element to it as well. Like virtue signaling but without the virtue. I guess its just one incarnation of in crowd bullying. Hipsterism and the like, but this current incarnation has a lot more anger to it.
Re: “The joy of sharing has been driven from me“
#103Earlier quoted context omitted.
In the other thread about this, someone brought up the colloquially named "Zelda Effect". It is most evident when reviewing Wind Waker, which used cartoony cell-shaded graphics: contemporary comments featured quite a lot of vitriol over that decision, but the game is now fondly remembered as one of the best entrants in the series.
Deep down almost everyone is "conservative" - they want what they had yesterday again today, so any change to art style, etc, is already on a back-foot. But in the end, the good things stand out. The reason the CD-i Zelda games are not remembered fondly is not really because of the art style, that's just an easy way to rip on them.
The game developer is basically taking all the hate that people are really directing at a society that doesn't value the same things they do anymore. I thought SNES Zelda and Final Fantasy were the best, but I didn't threaten the developers when they moved to 3d.
Re: “The joy of sharing has been driven from me“
#104I like Ron Gilbert. I don't like all of the games he's worked on but I like most of them. I think it's great that he's making this new game and he's doing it how he wants to. I will likely check it out when it's released and there's a good chance that I'll enjoy it. all of that said, I have a hard time understanding this situation. when you've been making games for decades and you've watched the Internet grow from no…
So, your argument is "The art is terrible and he must have known it was terrible and possibly made it terrible intentionally for some sort of complex culture-war publicity reason because the only other possibility is that he's actually offended by people telling him he's a terrible person and and idiot and a moron and only capable of producing absolute garbage because no person today would be offended by that because…
the first four words of your attempted paraphrase of my post, or anything like them, do not exist in my post in any form. while reading my post you hallucinated that I was "one of them" and disapproved of the game's art style.
to clarify: I don't have any strong opinions about the art style of Return to Monkey Island, and while I have some thoughts about it, that entire line of discussion is uninteresting to me. I see no reason for the art style to have been chosen other than that those involved in making the game think it's a good fit for the game they're making. and it probably is! so please, if you're going to continue to engage with me on this topic, update your mental model of me and the position I'm taking on this, because you seem to have made some faulty assumptions, unsubstantiated by what I've posted here.
however, it should be obvious to anyone that the art style is both a departure from the original games, and their later sequels, and that it's such a stylistic departure that backlash should be fully expected. if Ron Gilbert really, truly did not expect backlash on the reveal of the art style, then either he is ridiculously naïve compared to how I would expect him to be, given his career and previous works... or the reveal and subsequent response, in which we all meant to feel warm and fuzzy and sympathetic to a legendary game designer who had anonymous fuckwads write mean things about him and his game on the Internet, was expected, and planned as part of making a broader audience care about a point-and-click adventure game being released in 2022, at a time where great lengths must be taken to get anyone to care about any game you make at all, as there's way too many options for not just games to play but places to give one's attention in general.
what do you think the net effects of this entire saga are going to be? do you think more people know and/or care about the release of this upcoming game, a game which is of a genre that is broadly (back) in decline (after a brief resurgence a decade or so ago), as a result of this debacle?
and almost more importantly: what was it about my post that made you think I disliked the art style of Return to Monkey Island? because it wasn't the words that said as much, because those words don't exist—yet something made you think I think the art style is bad! it might be useful to analyze what led you to this incorrect assumption.
Re: “The joy of sharing has been driven from me“
#105Earlier quoted context omitted.
Just because bullying is common doesn't mean people should get used to it
what alternative course of action do you suggest instead? I don't understand why you think people should continue to be surprised by wholly predictable reactions contingent upon inherently flawed human behavior. hopefully your solution isn't simple moral posturing that Things Should Be Better, because that might feel good to say but as a solution it's pretty obviously untenable. regardless: either Ron Gilbert is, som…
presumably the last time he made a game people weren't such huge dicks about it... no big deal but modern gamers cause a chilling effect in the industry by behaving this way, inevitably. Creative professionals /don't/ have to get used to being punching bags.. they're exactly the type to take their toys and go home. That's what happens when you do something for love (and take a pay cut to do it).
The hateful gamers will just have to continue to enjoy loveless games made by companies who know that a 100mm budget is table stakes to protect them from their customers. The passionate makers will find something else to love; that's their power.
Re: “The joy of sharing has been driven from me“
#106Gamers are the most entitled consumer group I've ever seen. It's astounding. Someone wants to create something, and there's just so much hate and negativity on something that people didn't even pay for. I've seen it on HN also. Someone creates a thing, and then people pour out of the woodwork to lump horrible criticism. No one is asking for blind praise for what they create, but surely there's a middle ground between…
>Gamers are the most entitled consumer group I've ever seen.
Replace "gamers" with "book readers" and it should become obvious why this is not an insightful comment, but rather an expression of some kind of existential angst mixed with outdated stereotypes. Gamers ceased being a distinct consumer group when the medium of games went mainstream and ceased to heave anything resembling a coherent subculture.
Re: “The joy of sharing has been driven from me“
#107I played the original ones and I would have preferred a pixel art closer to the original. That being said, I subscribe what Ron and many people here said. If you don't like it, don't buy it. There's no need for all vitriol. I will buy it the same, since for me Monkey Island was always about much more than the graphics. On top of everything, this is the actual _creator_ of all the games and stories' vision. It's not l…
> I would have preferred a pixel art
Nothing wrong with a preference but online everyone bikesheds this. I heard endless complaints about Wind Waker cel shaded graphics and that was one of peoples most favorite thing about the game.
Sometimes I wonder how a site can disable or discourage bikeshedding in their comment section. It's probably impossible or needs so little traffic a moderator can handle it (1K comment per second is impossible)
Re: “The joy of sharing has been driven from me“
#108I feel even in gaming, the customer is always right at the end of the day. Unless we are talking about making games just for the sake of it & then throwing them away, but I suspect not. That said, most of the time it is better to not interact with the customer until you are certain it is the right time. Transparency seems like more of a liability than anything here. I strongly prefer the stealth mode development patt…
> I feel even in gaming, the customer is always right at the end of the day. There are customers who are most definitely not right. The kind that cheat in online games, lie about it, dox you when you catch them. The kind of customer that tries to break into your systems or DDOS you. The kind that try to steal from you and your partners, or that harass other players, or that post pornography to your forums. The kind t…
I can't find it now but I think a game developer wrote a while back what a game would be like if they listened to all customer feedback and it was a nightmare, it's like the homer designing a car episode of the Simpsons. I have to admit even sometimes my gut reaction to or a game or ideas would ultimately make the game too bloated / less fun.
Re: “The joy of sharing has been driven from me“
#109I feel even in gaming, the customer is always right at the end of the day. Unless we are talking about making games just for the sake of it & then throwing them away, but I suspect not. That said, most of the time it is better to not interact with the customer until you are certain it is the right time. Transparency seems like more of a liability than anything here. I strongly prefer the stealth mode development patt…
If you don't own a copy are you a customer?
Re: “The joy of sharing has been driven from me“
#110Something I’ve increasingly felt is that nobody should feel like they’re under any obligation to read comments on what they do or replies to what they say. In the days before the internet the options for direct feedback to an author or creator were limited and often the author or creator could or would just ignore them. It was considered a good idea! Now people have things like forums for their games or comments on their articles and for some reason I don’t understand feel compelled to engage with them. They shouldn’t. It’s okay to just make what you want to make or write what you want to write and ignore any and all response to it. If your works are valuable and enjoyed then great, if not so be it. But subjecting yourself to the most obsessive and neurotic segment of your audience is just a recipe for misery. There’s little to no benefit to it. You don’t owe anything to anyone.