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V Language Review

mawfig.github.io

101–110 of 336 posts

Re: V Language Review

#101
post #54
post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's interesting or telling, because if you read what I posted carefully, I was not insinuating anything about your evaluation. Instead, the point was being made that you probably don't want to be associated with an old evaluation from 3 years ago, which is falsely accusing V of being vaporware, and where the author and the developer of V clearly have beefs with each other.

Good news: I'm never going to write about V again: https://xeiaso.net/blog/against-toxicity-programming-languag...

I don't see how that follows? That blog post basically says "don't be toxic about languages". Unless you're using a much broader definition of "toxic" than I'd expect, that doesn't mean you can't write about languages, including fair critiques and even comparisons. I mean, take... "old school" PHP. By all accounts, PHP used to have a lot of sharp edges (in the sense that it was easy to "cut yourself" on it and accidentally do something bad). This was a legitimate, valid problem. It didn't mean that PHP was irredeemably bad, it didn't mean that a dev was A Bad Programmer for writing PHP, but it was true. You can discuss languages, even comparing them to others and pointing out flaws where they exist, without being "toxic" about it.

Re: V Language Review

#102
post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good news: I'm never going to write about V again: https://xeiaso.net/blog/against-toxicity-programming-languag...

I don't see how that follows? That blog post basically says "don't be toxic about languages". Unless you're using a much broader definition of "toxic" than I'd expect, that doesn't mean you can't write about languages, including fair critiques and even comparisons. I mean, take... "old school" PHP. By all accounts, PHP used to have a lot of sharp edges (in the sense that it was easy to "cut yourself" on it and accide…

A lot of that post is actually me wanting to be sure that my legacy isn't one of perceived toxicity. When you are in as many minority groups as I am, then you end up becoming an unpaid existential ambassador and you need to be hyper careful to not look like an asshole or do things that could possibly make you look like an asshole because people will assume that being an asshole is a representative sample of those groups. It is not, but logic is not this species' strong suit.

Plus, writing about how V is outright lying in its documentation gets boring because it's too easy. There's no real nuance or the like to it. It's someone overpromising and underdelivering, and then you also get the V cult going after you and sending so much hatemail. It's not worth it.

Re: V Language Review

#103
post #95

I never understood the motivations behind V. It's clearly not a hobby project started out by a developer who is genuinely experimenting with PLs and want to put out something unique. It feels more like a stunt or a flair to either extort money or become famous. All that would be perfectly okay if V did what it claims to do but the author fanatically makes exciting claims but implements only fluff to hide the underlyi…

> It's clearly not a hobby project started out by a developer who is genuinely experimenting with PLs and want to put out something unique. It feels more like a stunt or a flair to either extort money or become famous.

Is that obvious? Yes, if I put on my cynical hat it pattern matches a money-grab or some other sort of fraud, but if I put on my charitable-interpretation hat V also perfectly pattern matches my idea of "solo developer wants to create the perfect language and goes after it with fresh eyes and a lot of enthusiasm (and yes, does get slowed down when it comes to fleshing out every little detail correctly and fully)". How do you distinguish?

Re: V Language Review

#104
post #19
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is 'Xe' the name or the preferred pronoun of the person in question? Is this like Latinx but race neutral? Gender identity accommodations seem to get more complex and confusing by the month...

Who gives. Just use 'they' or 'them', or whatever. It is a universal catch all, gender neutral, i18n inclusivity conformant, ISO 69420 compliant, race neutral, etc. At this point, all of it is basically designed to further confuse and only create a very monthly chaotic outcome for everyone.

Xe has been in use as a gender neutral pronoun for nearly thirty years. I, a startlingly ordinary person, was familiar with it as early as the late 90s.

Re: V Language Review

#105
post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see how that follows? That blog post basically says "don't be toxic about languages". Unless you're using a much broader definition of "toxic" than I'd expect, that doesn't mean you can't write about languages, including fair critiques and even comparisons. I mean, take... "old school" PHP. By all accounts, PHP used to have a lot of sharp edges (in the sense that it was easy to "cut yourself" on it and accide…

A lot of that post is actually me wanting to be sure that my legacy isn't one of perceived toxicity. When you are in as many minority groups as I am, then you end up becoming an unpaid existential ambassador and you need to be hyper careful to not look like an asshole or do things that could possibly make you look like an asshole because people will assume that being an asshole is a representative sample of those gro…

Okay, fair; those are good reasons. I don't think those fall under the "toxic" label, but they stand on their own regardless.

(Not meant as an attack. I suspect that I might be splitting hairs too finely here; I can be a little overenthusiastic about terminology. If so, sorry.)

Re: V Language Review

#106

People like to dunk on V because of its author and community, but I will say that the design of the language itself (leaving aside the implementation) is genuinely interesting. To me, it feels like what Go should have been. And I like Go. So obviously I have a bit of a soft spot for V. Disclaimer: I’ve never actually used it.

> the design of the language itself (leaving aside the implementation) is genuinely interesting […] > Disclaimer: I’ve never actually used it. I can make a hypotethical language as well (I do it all the time), but I wouldn’t make a website about it and give it a name.

New language proposal: W

Features: * All of the things you want * No things that you don't want

Please donate to my Patreon

Re: V Language Review

#107

At this point, why do people even spend time on debunking the marketing claims of this language at all? It's been done to death, whoever was going to be convinced the V developer is a charlatan has already been convinced. For better or for worse.

I think everyone wants a "Rust but better" language to exist, and that very well might be V in 5 years, but Rust wasn't advertising features as 'completed' years before they were implemented/stable and neither should V. Continuing to point out the design issues will either get the marketing claims removed (just throw up a roadmap!) or articles like this will be used to show V's progress in a distant future.

> wants a "Rust but better" language to exist, and that very well might be V in 5 years . . .

How can anyone possibly believe this?? What is the motivation?? V is a `README` full of desires, and a source tree full of incompetence. There is no concrete or technical evidence that can support this optimism. Zig is a serious project. Go is a serious project. Rust is a serious project. V is, obviously, an un-serious project.

Re: V Language Review

#108
post #95

I never understood the motivations behind V. It's clearly not a hobby project started out by a developer who is genuinely experimenting with PLs and want to put out something unique. It feels more like a stunt or a flair to either extort money or become famous. All that would be perfectly okay if V did what it claims to do but the author fanatically makes exciting claims but implements only fluff to hide the underlyi…

> It's clearly not a hobby project started out by a developer who is genuinely experimenting with PLs and want to put out something unique. It feels more like a stunt or a flair to either extort money or become famous. Is that obvious? Yes, if I put on my cynical hat it pattern matches a money-grab or some other sort of fraud, but if I put on my charitable-interpretation hat V also perfectly pattern matches my idea o…

Yeah, a lot of projects that fall through aren't actually made by scam artists or people trying to make a quick buck. I'd wager most of these are just by overly ambitious people that massively underestimate the challenge of getting there.

It's especially prevalent in indie gaming and large Kickstarters. Some are actually scams, but a lot are just entirely out of their depth and realize this too late/only when their deadlines come due. And yet there are content creators which just make video after video just shitting on these people. Quiet sad all around.

(Though that link from the sister comment does make it look quiet bad in this case. Projects that just make great sounding claims about the current state of the project, even though none of it is true can't be taken seriously in my opinion.)

Re: V Language Review

#109
post #12

My recommendation is that if you like the look of V, you should consider Zig or Odin as well. Personally, Zig seems like the most promising C-but-modern language due to the interesting compile-time programming features and impressive investment in toolchain infrastructure.

Where does language like Vala stand? Is it worth checking out?

Do you mean Vale? Vala (the gnome langage) is in an unrelated category.

Re: V Language Review

#110
post #32

At this point, why do people even spend time on debunking the marketing claims of this language at all? It's been done to death, whoever was going to be convinced the V developer is a charlatan has already been convinced. For better or for worse.

Have a look at the GitHub repo, it’s very active and there are clearly some passionate people putting a lot of work into it. So it’s worth looking at the language again every now and then.

Cryptocurrencies are also full of ‘passionate’ people. Doesn’t change that it’s all a bigger-fool scam.
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