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Kickstarter Union voted 97.6% to ratify one of the first tech union contracts

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Re: Kickstarter Union voted 97.6% to ratify one of the first tech union contracts

#101

Post by jasonlotito »

adam_arthur wrote: post #53

Definitely wouldn't want to be part of a union. I represent myself, thanks. Smaller and wide set of unions in an industry can be effective, but industry wide unions are effectively a monopoly on labor supply and bad for society. Look no further than the MTA in NYC. Terrible cost overruns and bad governance of the subway system, for what? So employees can clock extra hours and get egregiously overpaid? No thanks. Comp…

> Competitive markets produce societally best outcomes

Define "societally best outcomes". By using the word "societally", you are saying it's not he best outcome for the business, nor is it the best outcome for the employees, nor the best outcome for the customers, but the best outcome for the society at large. Your MTA example shows that a union is great for workers. Please explain.

Considering unions are used successfully in many industries and are supported by both major parties in the US, you'll have a difficult time explaining how they are all wrong.

> Smaller and wide set of unions in an industry can be effective,

Isn't this the KickStarter union?

Also, what's a "Smaller and wide union"?

Finally, if unions are so bad, why do many of the largest companies in the world continue to hire from unions?

Re: Kickstarter Union voted 97.6% to ratify one of the first tech union contracts

#102

Post by lostcolony »

djbebs wrote: post #93
kieselguhr_kid wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A recently unionized workplace can get hostile to workers who opposed it. This is fine by me: if you opposed the majority of your coworkers in their struggle for better material working conditions, then you should feel their resentment.

Can we also make a hostile work environment to pro-union employees? Or is this another one of those hypocrite things?

What...sort of environment do you think caused them to unionize?

Re: Kickstarter Union voted 97.6% to ratify one of the first tech union contracts

#103

Post by adam_arthur »

bestcoder69 wrote: post #95
adam_arthur wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A union tends to be a monopoly on labor supply in most cases. Not a competitive labor market. Bargaining collectively = monopoly. They can raise wages up to the level of marginal profit of the employing company. Just the same as a company that's a monopoly could raise prices up to marginal value of the good to the customer. If the company can bypass the union to hire others, then it's not a monopoly. But if the union…

> Distorted wages for labor is not good for broader society Real life on planet earth disagrees pretty hard with you. Google "___est countries". Pick a metric that shows policy impacts. Say, health, happiness, etc. The kind of metrics that aren't abstract BS and can't be cherry-picked. Pick the first, say, five. Then look up their unionization rates. I'll spoil it for you. Nordic countries win (it doesn't even matter…

It's a good thing Europe can mooch off US innovation and Chinese manufacturing. Manufacturing that is not unionized, by the way.

If the US went the way of Europe, technological innovation would slow dramatically, which I'll argue is a bad outcome for the world in the long run.

What do you think the cost of basic goods would rise to if all the Chinese manufacturing centers unionized?

Re: Kickstarter Union voted 97.6% to ratify one of the first tech union contracts

#104

Post by djbebs »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #14
0des wrote: post #8

Is it mandatory for employees to join the union?

Or course not. You can work somewhere else if you don’t want collective representation. Can’t have your cake and eat it too, getting benefits of a union without joining it is freeloading.

The union isn't my employer, why would I need their permission to work?

Re: Kickstarter Union voted 97.6% to ratify one of the first tech union contracts

#105

Post by totony »

xibo9 wrote: post #88
busterarm wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Corporations bargain collectively by default; Only with unskilled labor. My profession is skilled and the skillset is in demand and hard to find. I bargain for myself, thanks. I have repeatedly and at length discussed on HN about my 3 separate union membership experiences and how I will never again repeat them.

"unskilled labor" What an extremely elitist phrase.

Do you have a better term for it?

Re: Kickstarter Union voted 97.6% to ratify one of the first tech union contracts

#106

Post by pessimizer »

bdcravens wrote: post #9
syspec wrote: post #4

How profitable is kick starter? I've not kept up, but it's certainly not discussed much these days According to Wikipedia: Net income: $1.3 million after tax (2019)[1]: 1

That's not much money at all.

I'm pretty sure $1 of profit at a tech company puts you in the top 15%.

Re: Kickstarter Union voted 97.6% to ratify one of the first tech union contracts

#107

Post by pastor_bob »

jimmySixDOF wrote: post #3

Kickstarter also voted itself to become a Public Benefits Corporation [1] so you would hope they were already out in front of ensuring contributor rights are fairly represented in concert with other stakeholders. [1] https://medium.com/kickstarter/kickstarter-is-a-pbc-heres-wh...

Isn't that designation basically BS? So was Etsy, and they ditched it and went full capitalism mode.

Re: Kickstarter Union voted 97.6% to ratify one of the first tech union contracts

#109

Post by pessimizer »

busterarm wrote: post #80
TulliusCicero wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Competition applies to labor too, by the way Yes, which is why unions are great. Corporations bargain collectively by default; each is a large unit, with a lot of resources, composed of many people. Unions allow individuals to bargain collectively, to match corporations in terms of leverage, because few individuals are valuable enough to even come close.

> Corporations bargain collectively by default; Only with unskilled labor. My profession is skilled and the skillset is in demand and hard to find. I bargain for myself, thanks. I have repeatedly and at length discussed on HN about my 3 separate union membership experiences and how I will never again repeat them.

The no-poach cartel that ruled big tech for like a decade would like to have a word.

Re: Kickstarter Union voted 97.6% to ratify one of the first tech union contracts

#110

Post by Xeoncross »

I don't understand unions for tech workers. We're not living in shacks rented to us by the company and can't afford a bus ticket to a new city or school to start a new life.

We're making six figures here. Want more pay? Sit on your butt and do leetcode or practice interviews and network with other rich programmers. Move to a tropical island and work remote. Heck, you don't even need to go to college and just about anything you want to learn is a $9.99 class away or free on in video format.

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