Live data from Hacker News

Crypto lending company Babel Finance halts redemptions and withdrawals

babel.finance

101–110 of 188 posts

Re: Crypto lending company Babel Finance halts redemptions and withdrawals

#101
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How come? There are many people in crypto who aren't fond of companies like Coinbase or OpenSea. The helped to make things a bit more mainstream, but they aren't paragons of decentralization.

Yeah, but de-fi had already been done successfully in the early 2000's well before Bitcoin and still didn't pan out in the end.

What are you referring to?

Re: Crypto lending company Babel Finance halts redemptions and withdrawals

#102
post #71
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do have a great analysis framework for crypto projects: "is crypto project?" -> "stay away"

Sure I get that, but I'm old enough to remember the .com crash carnage and people saying that the web was a total waste of time etc and look how wrong they were. I think that the future is a probability distribution, and there is a non-zero probability that crypto doesn't die but keeps growing. Therefore, I'm not all in, but I'm not all out.

The internet had obvious and wide ranging use cases that were immediately apparent to everyone. Blockchain tech has at best a series of edge case applications for record keeping. I don't think they are comparable at all.

Re: Crypto lending company Babel Finance halts redemptions and withdrawals

#103
post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Still Ponzi schemes, but yes they probably will continue unabated.

So companies like Checkout.com, Stripe, etc using a cryptocurrency in their crypto product means that they are also part of the so called 'Ponzi scheme' and they are currently out there scamming?

Yes. Or at least they're exploiting the situation.

Re: Crypto lending company Babel Finance halts redemptions and withdrawals

#104
post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Still Ponzi schemes, but yes they probably will continue unabated.

So companies like Checkout.com, Stripe, etc using a cryptocurrency in their crypto product means that they are also part of the so called 'Ponzi scheme' and they are currently out there scamming?

[deleted]

Re: Crypto lending company Babel Finance halts redemptions and withdrawals

#105
post #84
post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure I get that, but I'm old enough to remember the .com crash carnage and people saying that the web was a total waste of time etc and look how wrong they were. I think that the future is a probability distribution, and there is a non-zero probability that crypto doesn't die but keeps growing. Therefore, I'm not all in, but I'm not all out.

I was there too and basically nobody said that. Crypto being "like the early internet" and "people said that the web was a waste of time too!" are the biggest crypto lies ever told and repeated. Absolute whoppers.

I exaggerate, but in the run up neighbours were telling everyone to just buy Microsoft, and everyone tech adjacent I knew was trying to make an e-commerce website. I was just graduating out of university and web dev jobs evaporated. Many e-commerce companies went bust, or were acquired (my gf at the time experienced layoff after layoff until she went). At that time everyone I knew was not thinking about doing anything web related.

Probably the smart money knew that the builders who kept going had a chance to run up when the market came back on the excitement of what they built, but my social circle were not privy to those conversations.

Re: Crypto lending company Babel Finance halts redemptions and withdrawals

#106
post #84
post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure I get that, but I'm old enough to remember the .com crash carnage and people saying that the web was a total waste of time etc and look how wrong they were. I think that the future is a probability distribution, and there is a non-zero probability that crypto doesn't die but keeps growing. Therefore, I'm not all in, but I'm not all out.

I was there too and basically nobody said that. Crypto being "like the early internet" and "people said that the web was a waste of time too!" are the biggest crypto lies ever told and repeated. Absolute whoppers.

Seems peoples perspectives are different, who would have thought?

Personally, I was working with computers back then too, and most people who also didn't work with computers at that point always asked me "When are you gonna get a real job?" and told me "the Internet is just a fad".

But again, your experience could very well have been different.

Re: Crypto lending company Babel Finance halts redemptions and withdrawals

#107
post #98

This article gives some context, including this: > At the end of 2021, Babel Finance had an outstanding loan balance of over $3 billion, up from $2 billion the previous February. It averaged $800 million in monthly derivatives trading volume and had structured and traded over $20 billion in options products. https://www.coindesk.com/business/2022/06/17/babel-finance-s... The ripple effects here are going to be substa…

>Please explain to me the difference between a bank and a Ponzi Scheme.

Banks are forced to abide by regulations and laws dictating how fractional-reserve organizations are allowed to operate. In return, peoples' deposits are backed by the government up to $250k (in the US).

Ponzi schemes ignore regulations and laws, and their customers' deposits are not insured or backed by any organization.

The laws that banks are forced to follow may be woefully insufficient, but the government is incentivized to prevent serious collapses because they would be on the hook for a lot of money. Retail customers are also less likely to start a run if they trust that someone will be there ready to hand over their cash when the dust settles.

Re: Crypto lending company Babel Finance halts redemptions and withdrawals

#108
post #45

Question for the crypto skeptics of HN. Do you think this cycle the whole crypto space goes down the drain never to be heard of again? Do you think the whole space is a fad or do you think there are patches of values underneath the froth? How do you see the space evolving? Thanks!

I think basically the whole space is a fad, but fads don't usually disappear entirely. Beanie babies were a fad; they are no longer a fad; this doesn't seem to affect my niece's enjoyment of the beanie baby we bought for her last year.

My approach is to stay away until the fad dies, and then look to see if any part of it is useful to me. The last time I made a serious evaluation of something in that space was Bitcoin; it didn't serve any use case I had; but maybe there's been some innovation in the space that is hard to find behind the fad hype.

Re: Crypto lending company Babel Finance halts redemptions and withdrawals

#109
post #45

Question for the crypto skeptics of HN. Do you think this cycle the whole crypto space goes down the drain never to be heard of again? Do you think the whole space is a fad or do you think there are patches of values underneath the froth? How do you see the space evolving? Thanks!

I believe we're seeing the end of "retail crypto." Just like agricultural futures, crypto will continue to exist but will mostly be known outside of institutional trading as a good way to lose your shirt.

As far as underlying value goes: one thing we've learned from the constant scamming is that a protocol designed for trustless interactions will inevitably devolve into purely adversial interactions. Consider it a social application of Gresham's law. Central banks, multinational corporations, and others who can marshal the resources to perform extensive audits will probably use smart contracts on a proof-of-stake chain for large, adversarial transactions that occur outside of any one nation's jurisdiction. Everything else will continue to be based on trust, just like it always has been.

Re: Crypto lending company Babel Finance halts redemptions and withdrawals

#110
post #98

This article gives some context, including this: > At the end of 2021, Babel Finance had an outstanding loan balance of over $3 billion, up from $2 billion the previous February. It averaged $800 million in monthly derivatives trading volume and had structured and traded over $20 billion in options products. https://www.coindesk.com/business/2022/06/17/babel-finance-s... The ripple effects here are going to be substa…

> Please explain to me the difference between a bank and a Ponzi Scheme.

The story of the 3 little pigs comes to mind. "The first pig made his house out of straw...".

Post reply on HN