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US quietly urges more use of Russia fertilizer to ease food crisis

bloomberg.com

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Re: US quietly urges more use of Russia fertilizer to ease food crisis

#101

Post by yks »

LewisVerstappen wrote: post #80
yks wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He's not unhinged, he's essentially a boss of a drug cartel, flaunting his strength and cruelty but respecting the power of others. There is no real value for him to launch nukes unless he thinks the West is absolutely weak and I'm afraid that conviction is actually growing.

This is exactly what everyone said about Putin invading Ukraine. Putin invading Ukraine was impossible because he's not unhinged and it would be an insanely stupid thing to do. He's just gathering his armies next to the border because he's flaunting his strength. >I'm afraid that conviction is actually growing Based off your in-depth research of casually browsing NY Times headlines?

> This is exactly what everyone said about Putin invading Ukraine.

First, not everyone, Ukrainians knew. Second, after the end of WW2 we lived (wanted to live) under a spell that conquering whole countries with some opportunistic genocide on top is not going to happen anymore, or at least not in the "civilized" Europe. Now, I hope the spell is off, we can see the world more clearly, and it's a raw power competition in which Putin thinks he has the winning cards or can at least out bluff everyone.

Re: US quietly urges more use of Russia fertilizer to ease food crisis

#102

Post by JumpCrisscross »

cpursley wrote: post #97
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> When's the last time the US fought against a near-peer? When's the last time any major power fought a near peer? I would have said we're getting solid evidence of American intelligence supremacy out of Ukraine. But given the incompetence of the Russian military it would be embarrassing to put them in the same league as China.

The Russian military is only incompetent on American social media. Despite the memes and all the projection going around, they're running a master class in modern combined arms maneuver warfare. Their territorial gains and low losses relative to Ukraine speak for themselves; the Donbas is weeks, perhaps days, from being consolidated.

> they're running a master class in modern combined arms maneuver warfare

Ah. Got it.

Re: US quietly urges more use of Russia fertilizer to ease food crisis

#103

Post by corrral »

nemo44x wrote: post #94
yks wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Russia wins this war no matter what As they say, citation needed.

Just look at what's going on right now? They've just about succeeded now in claiming the Eastern territories they want and it won't be long now. Everything has turned the last few weeks since their initial offense was repelled and they regrouped. Why are some people rooting for more and more needless death and destruction?

> Why are some people rooting for more and more needless death and destruction?

Maybe ask on a Russian forum?

Re: US quietly urges more use of Russia fertilizer to ease food crisis

#104

Post by gambiting »

stefan_ wrote: post #39
bpodgursky wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> United States Imports from Russia of Fertilizers was US$1.28 Billion during 2021 [1] > Using data on ship movements, real-time tracking of gas flows through pipelines and estimates based on historical monthly trade, the researchers reckoned Germany alone paid Russia about 9.1 billion euros for fossil fuel deliveries — mostly natural gas — in the first two months of the war. [2] Let's not pretend these are comparabl…

Nuclear power stations that run with Russian fuel? Good try. (Not to mention they don't just "turn on".)

Other countries can provide fuel. Multiple countries have already signed contracts with American and French companies to manufacture fuel for their(Soviet designed) reactors. It's already happening. Also a fully fueled reactor can run for a long time before it needs refueling. Germany doesn't want to turn its reactors on for like the above poster said - ideological reasons. And yeah there is a startup process, but they could have been spun up by now since the start of this war.

Re: US quietly urges more use of Russia fertilizer to ease food crisis

#105

Post by nemo44x »

tshaddox wrote: post #90
nemo44x wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're literally asking for more death and destruction. Just think of what you're saying. Russia wins this war no matter what and the pointless cheerleading from the media and some politicians has been nothing but disposing of Ukrainian lives for the sole purpose of getting some type of bizarre revenge on Russia who they believe got Trump elected, or something. Sending more and more weapons only prolongs it and adds…

Are you suggesting that Putin ought to be allowed to invade any country he wants without resistance because resisting would only increase the death count? Or is there something specific about Ukraine?

No, the situation in Ukraine is so much more nuanced. There's a lot of history there and Ukraine is't an innocent bystander in this situation. It's fair to say Russia has been provoked in many ways and although I'm not sure an invasion is justified, it isn't all together unexpected based on how they've been treated regarding this over the last 10 years or so.

The breakdown in diplomacy with Russia is the worst part. The previous administration at least had diplomacy. The current one just pushed them into this.

Re: US quietly urges more use of Russia fertilizer to ease food crisis

#106

Post by JumpCrisscross »

mc32 wrote: post #77
nathanaldensr wrote: post #2

So "quiet" that Bloomberg's reporting on it? If you're a farmer, you're going to buy fertilizer from wherever and whomever unless prevented legally from doing so--and I, as a citizen of the US dependent on others growing this food on behalf of me, appreciate it.

I don't know what it is, but it seems something is not right. On the one hand the US is asking the EU and allies to stop buying oil and whatever from Russia. A few large retailers pulled out of the Russian market due to perceived pressure to do so. We tell India (traditional non-aligned country) not to buy from Russia, we chastised Brazil for buying fertilizer from Russia (despite our objections), we tighten our own…

> tell India (traditional non-aligned country) not to buy from Russia

This is an odd one to include given it's almost administration policy at this point to look the other way while New Delhi goes out of its way to buy Russian oil.

Re: US quietly urges more use of Russia fertilizer to ease food crisis

#107

Post by cpursley »

gambiting wrote: post #91
cpursley wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're getting downvoted by Americans with big fat paychecks in the Bay Area and other coastal cities on the energy self-sufficient North American content. Like it or not, Europe runs on Russian gas/oil/grain for the time being. The current crop of EU officials are probably not evil, but they are incredibly incompetent. By any object measure, the sanctions have filled the Russian Government's coffers and made Europe…

I downvoted them and I'm Polish - I see Ukrainian people on our streets every day, I hear their stories and their suffering all the time, my family is housing several refugees already. The stuff that Russia is doing to that country is making my blood boil. If anything, I'm incredibly upset that EU is not doing more to tighten the screw on Russia. If we are unwilling to send our militaries to fight Russia in Ukraine,…

Y'all need to be realistic about the energy situation or you'll have bigger problems than Russia.

Re: US quietly urges more use of Russia fertilizer to ease food crisis

#108

Post by nostromo »

mc32 wrote: post #77
nathanaldensr wrote: post #2

So "quiet" that Bloomberg's reporting on it? If you're a farmer, you're going to buy fertilizer from wherever and whomever unless prevented legally from doing so--and I, as a citizen of the US dependent on others growing this food on behalf of me, appreciate it.

I don't know what it is, but it seems something is not right. On the one hand the US is asking the EU and allies to stop buying oil and whatever from Russia. A few large retailers pulled out of the Russian market due to perceived pressure to do so. We tell India (traditional non-aligned country) not to buy from Russia, we chastised Brazil for buying fertilizer from Russia (despite our objections), we tighten our own…

It's political. (I don't mean that as a negative, just reality.)

The US is coming up on an election. The party in power is extremely unpopular right now, and about to get walloped according to polls.

Polling shows that inflation is a big driver for their unpopularity. So they're trying to square two semi-incompatible positions: support Ukraine via sanctions and fight inflation too.

Re: US quietly urges more use of Russia fertilizer to ease food crisis

#109

Post by realcertify »

yks wrote: post #29

The West could've ended this war by now if they just went all in on sending howitzers, MLRS and other heavy equipment into Ukraine but they keep slow dripping it, or just doing nothing like Germany. The most powerful societies in the world history just twiddle their thumbs while negative consequences keep mounting.

Total number of howitzers, MLRS etc across all NATO countries combined is in the same range as what Russia posesses. So that is not going to end the war, just more people will die. This is not a soccer game.

Re: US quietly urges more use of Russia fertilizer to ease food crisis

#110

Post by brandonmenc »

tshaddox wrote: post #82
Jcowell wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well yes? Is there any indication, given Putin’s back to a wall that he would not order nukes as a final fuck you ?

Then what are you suggesting? That Putin ought to be allowed to do literally anything he wants because if we tried to stop him he might nuke everyone?

> allowed to do literally anything

Uh, yeah?

If you have nukes you can pretty much do whatever you want, short of launching them at another nuclear power. That's just like, reality.

Remember this the next time everyone bellyaches about "unfair sanctions" or whatever when some country even hints that they're pursuing a nuclear program.

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