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Tell HN: Google does not list application permissions in the Play Store any more

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101–110 of 174 posts

Re: Tell HN: Google does not list application permissions in the Play Store any more

#101
post #4

> They had implemented that already a while ago, then reverted the behaviour, and now implemented it once again. This is, among many other reasons, why I finally dropped Android after the better part of a decade. The constant A/B/C/D/E testing makes every single thing they put out feel like it's a constant state of beta testing. It's to the point where you don't even know what to expect when you do something as funda…

It's funny how smart yet dumb A/B testing is. On one hand you can intelligently gauge the effect of changes, on the other hand you can push stupid shit since you have that power. How about intelligently designing applications that you yourself want to use? Too hard.

> How about intelligently designing applications that you yourself want to use?

The people who use the apps I make aren't always me. Many of them are very good at things that I know nothing about, but I usually know more about computers than they do. Sometimes the differences are even harder to account for, having different preferences, different ways of thinking, and participating in different cultures.

Re: Tell HN: Google does not list application permissions in the Play Store any more

#102
post #97
post #84

While it is much less of a concern with runtime permissions that are optional.... yeah, I greatly dislike this too. In particular because not everything is a runtime permission . E.g. I like to know that [apk X] has no internet or file permissions at all - it rules out nearly all practical ways to leak your information. And google just keeps taking more and more steps to hide that information from me.

> E.g. I like to know that [apk X] has no internet As far as I know (please correct if this is wrong), there's no such thing as an app with no Internet permissions. All apps can access the Internet without permission, and only additional uses of the Internet (e.g. seeing your WiFi AP name) require special permission. AFAIK the "Internet" permission many apps requested was actually for this more advanced usage - just…

> please correct if this is wrong

It is wrong. Internet permission is made of INTERNET and ACCESS_NETWORK_STATE, which are "normal"-level permissions to be specified in the Manifest. Without them, no Internet. Correctly: there are plentiful applications that do not need it.

Re: Tell HN: Google does not list application permissions in the Play Store any more

#103
post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> E.g. I like to know that [apk X] has no internet As far as I know (please correct if this is wrong), there's no such thing as an app with no Internet permissions. All apps can access the Internet without permission, and only additional uses of the Internet (e.g. seeing your WiFi AP name) require special permission. AFAIK the "Internet" permission many apps requested was actually for this more advanced usage - just…

The internet permission is separate, and without it an app can't connect to the network: https://developer.android.com/reference/android/Manifest.per... It's so commonly requested though, that virtually every app does have it.

(extremely) commonly requested, and granted implicitly for I-don't-know-how-long-but-it-is-a-long-time.

But for quite a while you could still read the permissions list in the play store, and see if it used it. And adding the permission would still give you a warning on upgrade (outside the play store anyway). Both of those (I believe) are gone nowadays.

It's obviously going to be requested by most, but its absence can be extremely relevant, e.g. https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=keepass2androi...

Re: Tell HN: Google does not list application permissions in the Play Store any more

#105
post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am very much fed up and ready to get on board with you but one thing that holds me back is photo quality. Nowadays camera sensors are only half the story and most of the iphone-like photo quality is achieved in software. Have we reached a point where non-OEM apps can deliver something comparable to the market expectations from big manufacturers? I am ok with narrow combinations e.g. if you use app X on Hardware Y y…

>one thing that holds me back is photo quality But... why? I use open camera. It works. It takes pictures. Those pictures look alright, pretty damn good even. I certainly don't look at them and go "well blimey I just can't tell what this picture is meant to be". Whatsapp ends up destroying the quality when I send them to friends anyway. Like, maybe if you've got a huge instagram following and a patreon drawing in mon…

The commenter explained why. (they mentioned the iPhone specifically; this may be the case moreso on there, I don’t follow Android)

It’s because there is a metric shitton of software that goes into the camera app itself, and access to the camera’s hardware does absolutely nothing to enable these features.

IIRC there’s actually some sort of crazy ML shit behind Apple’s native camera app; I would be very curious to see what a raw photo from the same sensor would look like in comparison.

Having said that whatsoever validates the commenter’s point.

Re: Tell HN: Google does not list application permissions in the Play Store any more

#106
Ugh. I really liked that "nutritional label" because the advance warning tells me upfront if the developer values my private data. I would prefer app stores be similar to health warnings on cigarette packets, because predatory data collection and billing practices are so entrenched.

Re: Tell HN: Google does not list application permissions in the Play Store any more

#107
post #97
post #84

While it is much less of a concern with runtime permissions that are optional.... yeah, I greatly dislike this too. In particular because not everything is a runtime permission . E.g. I like to know that [apk X] has no internet or file permissions at all - it rules out nearly all practical ways to leak your information. And google just keeps taking more and more steps to hide that information from me.

> E.g. I like to know that [apk X] has no internet As far as I know (please correct if this is wrong), there's no such thing as an app with no Internet permissions. All apps can access the Internet without permission, and only additional uses of the Internet (e.g. seeing your WiFi AP name) require special permission. AFAIK the "Internet" permission many apps requested was actually for this more advanced usage - just…

Google play stopped showing the internet permission ages ago, but it exists.

Re: Tell HN: Google does not list application permissions in the Play Store any more

#108
post #74

That seems OK since it still asks you as it needs them when running an app, and "prunes" permissions away from apps that you do not use often. Lots of apps only need specific permissions if you use specific parts of the app. And apps are much larger (one app does more things) than they were 5-10 years ago. Eg you can use some apps as a camera, but never as a photo editor, and get use out of it by only giving some spe…

One of the permissions I'm really reluctant to grant is "run at startup". As far as I know, that's granted at install time, not prompted for, and there's no way to disallow it. Is there now going to be no way to know if I'm granting that or not?

What's wrong with run at startup?

Re: Tell HN: Google does not list application permissions in the Play Store any more

#110
post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>one thing that holds me back is photo quality But... why? I use open camera. It works. It takes pictures. Those pictures look alright, pretty damn good even. I certainly don't look at them and go "well blimey I just can't tell what this picture is meant to be". Whatsapp ends up destroying the quality when I send them to friends anyway. Like, maybe if you've got a huge instagram following and a patreon drawing in mon…

The commenter explained why. (they mentioned the iPhone specifically; this may be the case moreso on there, I don’t follow Android) It’s because there is a metric shitton of software that goes into the camera app itself, and access to the camera’s hardware does absolutely nothing to enable these features. IIRC there’s actually some sort of crazy ML shit behind Apple’s native camera app; I would be very curious to see…

> I would be very curious to see what a raw photo from the same sensor would look like in comparison

Raw format photography (ProRAW specifically) has been officially supported on iPhones since around iOS 14.3 (which was released in late 2020), and plenty of people have reviewed that functionality already.

As for how it would look specifically, it is difficult to give a straightforward answer, because RAW photos require a good amount of manual processing. And the final result of is going to look 100% subjective depending on the person and how they manully processed it. Just like how the same would be the case for RAW photos taken with a DSLR.

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