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I love the Linux desktop, but that doesn't mean I don't see its problems

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Re: I love the Linux desktop, but that doesn't mean I don't see its problems

#101

Post by krnlpnc »

pupppet wrote: post #58
mrj wrote: post #30

Nonsense. There are billions of Android devices sold and customers don't seem too bothered by its fragmentation. They continue to buy Android devices en mass. So it seems fragmentation has many problems but that alone won't prevent people from using a device. I think the author believes that a critical mass of Linux desktop users will create enough interest in polish and solving problems for end users, so therefore b…

Call me a snob, but I bet no small number of Android users would have picked an iPhone if it were cheaper.

This sounds right, and also the marketing of Android is misleading and hardware focused which leads to false comparisons.

"Look the camera has more megapixels than an iPhone!"

Yeah ok, but the stock camera software outputs photos that look worse than an entry level iPhone.

Re: I love the Linux desktop, but that doesn't mean I don't see its problems

#102

Post by MisterBastahrd »

wing-_-nuts wrote: post #62
MisterBastahrd wrote: post #25

I hate it, which is why I don't use it. Ubuntu got the closest for me, but the owner's refusal to allow users to move that taskbar to the bottom of the screen made me give up on it altogether. And unless it's a supported distro, I don't want it. Been burned too many times by pet projects that end up being abandoned. The other thing is that in all my years of using Windows and MacOS, I have NEVER had an issue where an…

>the owner's refusal to allow users to move that taskbar to the bottom of the screen made me give up on it altogether. You ...do know there are countless desktop environments and window managers just an apt-get away right? If that's too much for you, you could have literally chosen any other flavor. My mother has been happily using xubuntu for years. If she can manage, I think you can too.

Hey, I have an idea!

You can read the rest of what I posted instead of assuming I never did any of those things.

Re: I love the Linux desktop, but that doesn't mean I don't see its problems

#103

Post by wmf »

simoncion wrote: post #96
sushisource wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree that the customization is a huge draw for me. But... I also want things like hibernate to just work, screen tearing to not happen on X11, etc etc. The polish is absolutely not there, and I agree w/ the article that's a result of the fragmented ecosystem. If the Linux community could agree to invest in the underlying APIs for desktop stuff, it seems we'd be in a much better place and still have lots of customi…

> [I want] screen tearing to not happen on X11... If you have AMD hardware that uses the 'amdgpu' driver, then -IME- enabling the TearFree option seems to completely eliminate tearing. (Though, I am using KDE, which _also_ has a "Make the compositor use vsync" option... which didn't actually eliminate tearing, when used by itself. But, there _may_ be confounders.) Anyway. Drop this into a file named "$WHATEVER.conf"…

What a great example. This stuff should be fixed by default.

Re: I love the Linux desktop, but that doesn't mean I don't see its problems

#104

Post by simoncion »

wmf wrote: post #103
simoncion wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> [I want] screen tearing to not happen on X11... If you have AMD hardware that uses the 'amdgpu' driver, then -IME- enabling the TearFree option seems to completely eliminate tearing. (Though, I am using KDE, which _also_ has a "Make the compositor use vsync" option... which didn't actually eliminate tearing, when used by itself. But, there _may_ be confounders.) Anyway. Drop this into a file named "$WHATEVER.conf"…

What a great example. This stuff should be fixed by default .

FWIW, I assume it adds a (maybe one frame) delay. It _is_ on by default when you've rotated or transformed the output (and for "secondary outputs".... whatever a "secondary" output is). From 'amdgpu(4)`:

       Option "TearFree" "boolean"
              Set the default value of  the  per-output  'TearFree'  property,
              which  controls tearing prevention using the hardware page flip‐
              ping mechanism. TearFree is on for any CRTC associated with  one
              or  more  outputs with TearFree on. Two separate scanout buffers
              need to be allocated for each CRTC with TearFree on. If this op‐
              tion  is set, the default value of the property is 'on' or 'off'
              accordingly. If this option isn't set, the default value of  the
              property  is  auto,  which means that TearFree is on for rotated
              outputs, outputs with RandR transforms applied and for RandR 1.4
              secondary outputs, otherwise off.
Edit: Also, distro packagers are quite able to set this on-by-default. It is configurable, after all. If you don't like the default that your distro has chosen, go chat at em. :)

Re: I love the Linux desktop, but that doesn't mean I don't see its problems

#105

Post by glouwbug »

bbertelsen wrote: post #26
bbertelsen wrote: post #24

PopOS needs an honorable mention here for the work it's done with pop shell for linux desktop. PopOS has been my daily driver for 3 years, pop shell is icing on the cake. Nvidia drivers baked in too!

https://github.com/pop-os/shell for the unaware!

Pop OS is just Arch Linux

Re: I love the Linux desktop, but that doesn't mean I don't see its problems

#106

Post by shiryel »

Yizahi wrote: post #99

The main problem of Linux on desktop is a severe lack of quality control and questionable usability pushed by people not using desktop and running mainly CLI. The issues addressed on desktops are not in correct priority, you should not polish "happy path" in the generalized public system. Corporation can easily work with "happy path"-only software because they can afford to train personnel, and they can afford to fix…

> Also (surprise) shell Linux knowledge almost doesn't scale to the debugging GPU drivers, DE and X server issues.

You will be surprised on how much Wayland solved those issues. At least, in my experience, understanding why Sway crashed is a debug flag away. Unfortunately, Wayland is a double edge sword, even more if you want to run games with multiple monitors (but that is a pain even on Windows in my experience).

Re: I love the Linux desktop, but that doesn't mean I don't see its problems

#107

Post by Klonoar »

em-bee wrote: post #68
Barrin92 wrote: post #47

Much of the Linux desktop is balkanized and fragmentation is indeed a huge issue. People's obsession with choice is irritating given that doing more or less the same thing in 10 different ways half-right is worse than doing it once correctly. The entire distro-zoo built on top of the same distributions with different DE's on top of it is an example. The problem with Windows or Mac isn't that it looks, feels and works…

10 different ways half-right is worse than doing it once correctly. The problem with Windows or Mac isn't that it looks, feels and works the same everywhere what's correct for you is not necesarily what's correct for me. the problem with windows/mac is very much that it doesn't work the way i want it to work. why even have multiple oerating systems at all, if we don't need choice? we could all be using windows. i don…

There is no reason there can’t be one agreed upon blessed way of doing things in Linux while still enabling users like you to have choice. Heavily enforced defaults are important for growth.

Re: I love the Linux desktop, but that doesn't mean I don't see its problems

#108

Post by hbn »

mrj wrote: post #30

Nonsense. There are billions of Android devices sold and customers don't seem too bothered by its fragmentation. They continue to buy Android devices en mass. So it seems fragmentation has many problems but that alone won't prevent people from using a device. I think the author believes that a critical mass of Linux desktop users will create enough interest in polish and solving problems for end users, so therefore b…

The fragmentation issue is with user choice, and the amount of learning and experimentation you have to do to make all of those decisions. There's no de facto "probably the best for you" Linux flavor, or method of installing applications. Whereas on Android, generally if you don't know what Android to get, you get a Samsung. You want to install an app? No matter which phone you have, you tap the Play Store icon.

Plus there's large corporations selling these devices, and they set everything up to work for you out of the box. You're not gonna run into an equivalent of the experience setting up Linux desktop where it's not recognizing your monitor correctly and you have to mess with drivers and running mysterious commands in a terminal to make it work. Samsung made the phone and hardware work, turn it on, and you're good to go.

Re: I love the Linux desktop, but that doesn't mean I don't see its problems

#109

Post by jbjohns »

themitigating wrote: post #11
encryptluks2 wrote: post #10

This article is sort of frustrating, because the issue they have isn't like something not working, just that there are multiple competing options and they want unity around all things.

I think having too many options can be frustrating for many people, especially if they aren't experts in the options.

Well, I think a bigger issue is so many of the options not really mattering at all.

Re: I love the Linux desktop, but that doesn't mean I don't see its problems

#110

Post by hulitu »

Barrin92 wrote: post #47

Much of the Linux desktop is balkanized and fragmentation is indeed a huge issue. People's obsession with choice is irritating given that doing more or less the same thing in 10 different ways half-right is worse than doing it once correctly. The entire distro-zoo built on top of the same distributions with different DE's on top of it is an example. The problem with Windows or Mac isn't that it looks, feels and works…

> The problem with Windows or Mac isn't that it looks, feels and works the same everywhere.

Did you use Win 10 ? One GUI in Teams, another in Office 365, a calculator which comes from outher space, 2 interfaces for configuration, disable microfon for admin account -> no microfone for user account.

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