Apple Unveils M2 • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple Unveils M2

#101

Post by cowtools » Mon, Jun 06, 2022, 7:31 PM UTC

eitland wrote: post #27

cowtools wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a false dichotomy. You could say the same about either company. Those are the inevitable consequences of proprietary software and vendor lock-in (my original comment was some rhetorical question, I edited it to be more direct and less passive-agressive)

Microsoft. They had some promising years but I always sensed a struggle in the wheelhouse. Now they are back to forcing Edge on people, ads on login screen and in the Start menu are their new inventions and their store is almost as broken as ever and most importantly hard earned trust flew out the window in the process.

Apple forces safari on users in iOS, has icloud ads and integrations built into the OS, and sells devices with locked down bootloaders/filesystems that don't let you sideload your own programs.

Who is the bigger threat here? The real threat to user freedom is the tribalism of picking the "lesser evil" when there are workable non-evil solutions like linux.

Re: Apple Unveils M2

#102

Post by guelo » Mon, Jun 06, 2022, 7:32 PM UTC

kyleplum wrote: post #2

I can't help but wonder what Microsoft's answer to Apple Silicon will be going forward. They don't really make hardware, but selling Windows laptops gets harder and harder the further Apple gets ahead. It seems inevitable that there needs to be some ARM-based Windows laptops to compete in perf/watt to the M1/M2 but I don't know what company can provide an ARM chip that competes with Apple at this point.

I'm not convinced that Apple's advantage is due to ARM vs x86. I think it has more to do with Apple's exclusive rights to TSMC's most advanced proccess. After all Apple is also beating Qualcomm's ARM Android CPUs.

Re: Apple Unveils M2

#103

Post by sgarman » Mon, Jun 06, 2022, 7:32 PM UTC

Andrew_nenakhov wrote: post #96

0n the return on MagSafe: they should have let Jony "Form over Function" Ive go much sooner. Maybe we'd still have audio jacks on iPhones.

I can't believe I'm saying this but now that all my devices charge via usb-c I don't actually want magsafe that much now I can bring one cable and change all my portables and mac + razer laptops. Not worth it for me to lug around another cable just for magsafe.

Re: Apple Unveils M2

#104

Post by 988747 » Mon, Jun 06, 2022, 7:33 PM UTC

hu3 wrote: post #78

988747 wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's anti-competitive about that? Apple doesn't even make their own chips, they need outside vendor for that. AMD and Intel are free to offer TSMC even more money, if they want.

You think AMD's 200 billion market cap stands a chance against Apple's 2.3 trillion market cap? Consumers only stand to lose in the long run. Including Apple consumers.

As far as I know TSMC is building a new factory in Arizona right now, and one more in Taiwan. That was largely financed by Apple's money, and is a huge win for consumers who will benefit from the most advanced chip manufacturing capabilities for the years to come.

Re: Apple Unveils M2

#105

Post by anonymouse008 » Mon, Jun 06, 2022, 7:33 PM UTC

It's very interesting to think the processor releases were holding back the Mac for so long. They are on the cusp on turning Macs into annual upgrades - with meaningful performance upgrades tied to the OS, just like they've done for a decade with the A series / iOS releases.

This is firing on all cylinders. The organizational structure and performance is a marvel for this.

Re: Apple Unveils M2

#106

Post by hu3 » Mon, Jun 06, 2022, 7:33 PM UTC

yakubin wrote: post #94

hu3 wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They mean Apple's advantage is in good part due to their anti-competitive practice of buying TSMC's entire 5nm production. Leaving none for others like AMD which had to compete on 7nm for the longest time. Same will happen for 3nm if nothing changes. Whatever your opinion may be about Apple/AMD/Intel. Unfair competition is not good for consumers in the long run. edit: instantly downvoted. As per tradition in Apple re…

That buying however much of whatever from a single company can be read as "anti-competitive" reflects more on the market, which relies on a single company for its fundamentals, than the buyer. To me it seems that the problem is not that Apple bought however much of whatever from TSMC, but rather that TSMC doesn't have competition at the moment. Hopefully that changes. (I do think HN is a bit trigger-happy with downvo…

Agree. Chip production is such an important aspect of economy these days. It baffles me that US still couldn't come up with a TSMC-like factory yet.

I get that it's really hard. Like rocket-science hard. But still.

Maybe Musk can start something in the sector.

Re: Apple Unveils M2

#107

Post by kllrnohj » Mon, Jun 06, 2022, 7:33 PM UTC

skavi wrote: post #83

paulmd wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 18% faster at the same performance per watt is a nice increase. 18% faster at the same wattage , which means 18% higher perf/watt.

Have they confirmed anything about power?

Since they never made any specific power claims of the M1, why would you expect them to make any such statements about the M2? You'll have to wait for 3rd party reviews and analysis for that.

Re: Apple Unveils M2

#108

Post by bee_rider » Mon, Jun 06, 2022, 7:33 PM UTC

vegai_ wrote: post #62

kyleplum wrote: post #2

I can't help but wonder what Microsoft's answer to Apple Silicon will be going forward. They don't really make hardware, but selling Windows laptops gets harder and harder the further Apple gets ahead. It seems inevitable that there needs to be some ARM-based Windows laptops to compete in perf/watt to the M1/M2 but I don't know what company can provide an ARM chip that competes with Apple at this point.

The only reason to buy a Windows laptop is so you can install Linux on it. If Asahi gets there, the last reason will vanish.

I am pretty happy in Intel+Linux. My device basically lasts all day. It does get kind of hot if I'm running some crunchy numerical code, but that's usually pretty short (assuming the thing I'm running is a laptop appropriate toy problem).

Re: Apple Unveils M2

#109

Post by xyst » Mon, Jun 06, 2022, 7:34 PM UTC

Let’s hope they fixed the 32MB TLB bottleneck

Re: Apple Unveils M2

#110

Post by cbhl » Mon, Jun 06, 2022, 7:34 PM UTC

kyleplum wrote: post #2

I can't help but wonder what Microsoft's answer to Apple Silicon will be going forward. They don't really make hardware, but selling Windows laptops gets harder and harder the further Apple gets ahead. It seems inevitable that there needs to be some ARM-based Windows laptops to compete in perf/watt to the M1/M2 but I don't know what company can provide an ARM chip that competes with Apple at this point.

Microsoft has ported Windows and Office to ARM for a decade, and they have both x86-to-arm (Windows 10) and x64-to-arm (Windows 11) translation technologies. They also have ARM-based Surface devices in the Microsoft Store (looks like the Surface Pro X is the current model).

That said, the big business is still big business: Azure (Cloud), Office, and device management (MDM) / active directory are big focuses even in a heterogeneous computing environment that includes Chromebooks and Macs.