Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Long Covid risk falls only slightly after vaccination, study shows

nature.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

101–110 of 170 posts

Re: Long Covid risk falls only slightly after vaccination, study shows

#101

Post by capitainenemo »

capitainenemo wrote: post #31
candiddevmike wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Correlation is not causation. It's funny that folks point at vaccines while ignoring pre existing conditions, yet with COVID it was the pre existing conditions and not COVID that were killing people.

Covid certainly has far a higher risk of heart damage on its own, and anecdote is not evidence, but there is a small amount of research that careless vaccination can cause damage as well. https://academic.oup.com/cid/advance-article/doi/10.1093/cid... https://www.thestandard.com.hk/breaking-news/section/4/17917...

Hm.. for all the people downvoting, did you check out the research and article on risk of not aspirating/poor injection point? It seems like a legitimate concern. I can locate some more citations as well if you wish.

Re: Long Covid risk falls only slightly after vaccination, study shows

#102

Post by micromacrofoot »

r00fus wrote: post #85
californical wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why does the media care if you get a 4th dose? How does it help them?

Pharma profits handsomely whenever government subsidizes more boosters.

The government isn't exactly rushing to 4th doses. They could authorize it for under 50s right now, but there's little evidence that it makes a significant difference, so they haven't.

Also note that we still don't have vaccines for kids under 5.

If the government wanted to line the pockets of pharma more, there's not a lot stopping them. So it's hard to take blanket statements about this seriously. I'm not denying that this has happened in the past, just that it's a lot more complicated than any single conspiracy theory.

Re: Long Covid risk falls only slightly after vaccination, study shows

#103

Post by mdp2021 »

ThrowawayTestr wrote: post #58

Is there any evidence that "long covid" is actually a thing?

It is in articles, and you will not have difficulties in finding anecdotal evidence. Of course, it will depend on the definition. It should be normal to believe that some can suffer semipermanent damages; it is more urging to assess and define the more subtle ones, for mild cases.

It is not clear (to some who follow the matter reasonably in their time) how permanent the damage will be, but for example the first article that results to a search, the "famous" recent "similar in magnitude to the effects of ageing between 50 and 70 years of age",

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S258953702...

mentions 10 IQ points lost in a number of patients months after hospitalization... They note: «it is very possible that some of these individuals will never fully recover».

Re: Long Covid risk falls only slightly after vaccination, study shows

#104

Post by micromacrofoot »

hda111 wrote: post #56
smt88 wrote: post #2

There are no conclusions to draw here. The study doesn't "show" anything -- it indicates a need for further research. I'm disappointed that Nature.com is engaging in this kind of sensational journalism. From their own article: > He praises the study, which was difficult to perform because of the amount and quality of data, but adds that it is limited because it does not break the data down by key factors, such as the…

What medications cause anxiety and depression?

In the past it's been anything from acne medications to birth control and even anti-depressants. Depression isn't an unusual side-effect at all.

Re: Long Covid risk falls only slightly after vaccination, study shows

#105

Post by JamesBarney »

lend000 wrote: post #65
JamesBarney wrote: post #27

The problem with a study like this is that they probably aren't doing a good job distinguish true long covid from psychosomatic long covid. And there is a lot of evidence that "long covid" correlates much more highly with pre-existing anxiety levels than disease severity. I think long covid exists I just think there is also a lot of psychosomatic long covid and until we have a good diagnostic criteria to differentiat…

The two most easily diagnosable metrics are a blood test showing reactivated EBV and/or a POTS diagnosis (which involves measurements of how your blood pressure and heart rate change while changing positions). Just because someone doesn't have those doesn't mean they aren't suffering long term effects from COVID. I've had both consistently for about 2 years now, along with some other neurological symptoms post-covid…

Oh I'm 100% not arguing long covid doesn't exist I have several friends who have long term sequelae from covid. But judging by the research people like yourself and them are probably out numbered by people who have psychosomatic issues.

And that makes studying and treating cases like yours and their's more difficult.

I also 100% believe that psychosomatic diseases are real and need to be taken seriously, they just require a different treatment plan than persistent auto-immunity or permanent lung or heart damage.

Re: Long Covid risk falls only slightly after vaccination, study shows

#106

Post by vorpalhex »

havblue wrote: post #77
vorpalhex wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not exactly a medication but alcohol for one. But many other drugs can cause these sorts of symptoms too including anti-depressants paradoxically.

Do you mean a treatment for anxiety and depression or a cause? “Here's to alcohol: the cause of, and solution to, all of life's problems.” -Homer Simpson

Alcohol can definitely cause anxiety, and make anxiety worse.

I will also suggest alcohol can trigger depression - but that is a claim that is ripe for debate and not well accepted.

Alcohol can also "treat" (in the sense of suppressing symptoms) anxiety and depression, thus leading to a downward spiral since it tends to make these things worse, thus you get into the cycle of "Oh I'm feeling anxious, better have a beer - oh, now my anxiety is worse now that I have sobered up, better have more..."

Re: Long Covid risk falls only slightly after vaccination, study shows

#107

Post by toolz »

DennisP wrote: post #99
spookthesunset wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> COVID has been the #3 cause of overall death in the US for two years now And yet two years into this I've yet to hear a solid answer to "is it 'died with' or 'died from'?" It's kind of funny that there is no answer to that because it dramatically changes how to interpret your figure. All these "experts" just skirt right around that question and asking it gets you labeled as a horrible alt-right grandma killer (whic…

The number of total deaths has gone up a little more than the number of known covid deaths. You do the math.

in countries that avoided hugely disruptive lockdowns the excess mortality barely moved at all. Sweden, a noteable example because the media attacked them for a year, was the worst faring non-lockdown country in the world and they still don't even break top 30 countries excess deaths during covid.

Not only that, but in 2021 sweden had the lowest excess mortality in the entirety of Europe.

So let's not pretend the math is simple here. Social disruption is lethal to vulnerable demographics. Even daylight savings time changes notoriously cause a large surge in heart attacks.

Re: Long Covid risk falls only slightly after vaccination, study shows

#108

Post by bee_rider »

neverstop222 wrote: post #100
bee_rider wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately I can't really afford "brain fog" at the moment, and we're still apparently finding out new information about long COVID and vaccines, so I guess it turns out this wasn't actually bonkers.

I'm sure there are lots of diseases that could dehabilitate you; my wife has brain fog from her multiple sclerosis and is still brave enough to go back to regular life because she understands that the risks of serious outcomes from the extant strains are incredibly low, and somehow she manages to be a successful professional with the brain fog. Life is a risk. You have a lower chance of serious outcome -- assuming yo…

Risk evaluation is a matter of tradeoffs. Since I can easily avoid this particular danger and I don't benefit from engaging in it, it isn't 'brave' to get rid of my masks, just foolish.

I'd rather spend my risk budget on things more interesting than showing my chin off at the grocery store.

Re: Long Covid risk falls only slightly after vaccination, study shows

#109

Post by spookthesunset »

qbasic_forever wrote: post #88
spookthesunset wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It is uniquely evolved to target and damage the vascular system in the body. There is so much panic, hysteria and just mythos around covid that I have a hard time believing this. Calling this thing "novel" gave some of these experts a hell of a lot of artistic liberty in how they describe covid. > And people ARE tracking things like flu vs. COVID statistics. So far COVID-19 is roughly 10x as deadly as a bad flu yea…

First you say "we should compare COVID to the flu" and now you say "look there's no way you can compare COVID to the flu". And then top it all off with the classic, "well you just can't trust any science in the last two years". You clearly are not arguing in good faith or of sound mind.

People in my area completely lost their minds. Like it was as if somebody cracked open their head and ran a stick blender up there. Some of the smartest people I knew bought so deeply into this stuff that when they'd harass me and call me a "grandma killer", it was basically word salad coming out of their mouth. It was nuts!

Of course I'm calling in suspect pretty much every bit of research conducted over the last two years. Nobody had a level head, myself included. It will be at least a decade before things cool down enough to actually look objectively at covid and our mitigations. And I strongly suspect when it is objectively looked at, it will be regarded as one of the worst public health fuckups in human history. Mass hysteria at a level never before possible.

Re: Long Covid risk falls only slightly after vaccination, study shows

#110

Post by mdp2021 »

neverstop222 wrote: post #100
bee_rider wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately I can't really afford "brain fog" at the moment, and we're still apparently finding out new information about long COVID and vaccines, so I guess it turns out this wasn't actually bonkers.

I'm sure there are lots of diseases that could dehabilitate you; my wife has brain fog from her multiple sclerosis and is still brave enough to go back to regular life because she understands that the risks of serious outcomes from the extant strains are incredibly low, and somehow she manages to be a successful professional with the brain fog. Life is a risk. You have a lower chance of serious outcome -- assuming yo…

> You can choose to face the risks of life ... sad and scared

There are reasons to believe this public will be more than typically keen to consider, in general, risk mitigation.

Risk awareness does not bring «sadness» - on the contrary, it brings relief. Surely, many will also be «scared»: but that is not because of /one's own/ risk mitigation practices - it is an effect of "looking around". In fact, «spending... limited time on this planet afraid» is pretty much an objective perspective. It may avoid you worse predicaments.

And for the ever present mention of «risk from driving»: there are Cost/Risk/Benefits considerations involved. Easily, renewing them may not bring to a reconsideration of the advantage of driving.

Post reply on HN