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Why aren't fentanyl test strips more widespread? (2021)

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Re: Why aren't fentanyl test strips more widespread? (2021)

#101

Post by Tiktaalik »

DantesKite wrote: post #34
l0ng1nu5 wrote: post #9

The real question we should be asking is why can't these poor people get access to proper medicine and treatment? Instead they have to resort to playing Russian roulette every time they use. Decriminalisation and regulation are the biggest harm reduction measures that could be taken and it would have the added bonus of freeing up space in the prisons and reducing the power of the cartels. There wouldn't be a fent pro…

Decriminalisation doesn’t seem to be working in San Francisco.

Decriminalization is part of solution, but there's a lot more that needs to be done.

Probably a lot more than two issues here, but two significant ones are that:

1) the real problem is that the drugs are toxic and no one knows what they're taking. Maybe the dose is wrong or maybe it's not even fentanyl, and just a bunch of crazy shit (eg. benzos). The drugs aren't what people expect and people die. The fastest way to end deaths would be to create a safe supply of drugs so people know what they're taking.

2) "Decriminalization" doesn't necessarily mean and end to police harassment, drug confiscation, and related issues that all make life hard for drug users and create barriers to them getting the real help they need.

While under decriminalization you may not end up in jail for having drugs, you are still able to have them confiscated and get a ticket (or summons to some thing), and then you're back at square one, needing to find more money to get drugs again. No wonder petty theft is such an issue in some places.

High policing and confiscation of drugs from drug users just helps the dealers sell more illegal product.

Circling back to point one again, a real safe supply of prescribed drugs handles this issue well in dealing with the money issue. But beyond this if we're going to allow people to have a safe supply of drugs, we also need to let people hold drugs too and not be harassed by police.

Ideally there's not just a safe supply of drugs but also a safe use site as well where medical staff can monitor and help people. These sorts of sites can be touch points where people can build relationships and help people when they're ready to move to some further stage of recovery.

Re: Why aren't fentanyl test strips more widespread? (2021)

#102

Post by xkcd-sucks »

lostmsu wrote: post #92
humbleguy wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a very misguided view. Majority of drug users are all around you, regular people who have families and hold jobs - your friends, your relatives, your coworkers. Just like majority of people who drink alcohol aren't alcoholics, majority of drug users aren't addicts.

Somehow I doubt that majority of drug users are from healthy families with kids.

Just considering it, it seems unlikely that the incredible economic volume of the hard-drugs industry is drivem by homeless people collecting change and redeeming cans.

Anecdotally, I know (or knew if they died) several people from PhD programs adjacent to my own who were habitual users of heroin (or stuff branded as such). I have significant experience with it (originating with friends in academia!!!), and it is very nice, but it just so happens that I like pooping more than I like opioids, which apparently is a stroke of luck

Re: Why aren't fentanyl test strips more widespread? (2021)

#103

Post by rayiner »

kmos17 wrote: post #87
cowtools wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't seem reasonable to me. In this usage it is normalizing drug use. When you use this terminology, you're implicitly saying "They're a person and they just so happen to be addicted to drugs" as if that drug use doesn't imply anything about the person's character. A drug user is not the same as a disabled person. If you're a drug abuser, I think the words people use to describe you are the least of your proble…

I don’t care either way about the acronym, but drug addiction has nothing to do with character. It is a disease and should be treated as such, and in fact the only proven way to stop drug addiction is through treatment.

You can't get addicted to drugs if you never take drugs in the first place. Absent situations like getting addicted to opioids after surgery, taking drugs does say something about your character.

Drug addiction is a biological phenomenon, but it can't happen without drug use, which is a social problem. For example, drug overdose death rates are six to eight times higher among white Americans than among Asian Americans: https://www.kff.org/coronavirus-covid-19/press-release/drug-.... I'm pretty sure the biology of drug addiction doesn't meaningfully differ between those groups.

Re: Why aren't fentanyl test strips more widespread? (2021)

#104

Post by memoriasit »

anon4reasonsduh wrote: post #8

And this is why i stopped consuming unregulated substances that I have not personally grown, extracted, or synthesized. Teaching yourself O-chem is fun, avoid trying to profit from it and you will do fine.

Interesting, what do you produce? And how difficult is it? I heard even Chem students can produce some mainstream drugs sometimes with easy to get products.

Re: Why aren't fentanyl test strips more widespread? (2021)

#105

Post by woodruffw »

rayiner wrote: post #74
woodruffw wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's consistent with the practice of using "people-first language"[1]. It sounds a little clunky to my ears in a lot of individual instances, but the overarching goal (making it harder to subconsciously dehumanize people) seems reasonable to me. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People-first_language

Acronyms are dehumanizing! Someone’s grandfather might be an “alcoholic.” A “PHUA” is a subject being addressed at arm’s length by someone in a lab coat.

Well, that's sort of what this is: the article in question is written by and for medical professionals.

I actually agree, at least partially: I think both people-first language and acronyms have the potential to depersonalize, even if they prevent more general dehumanization. But I also think there are plenty of contexts in which their use makes sense, like an article written for a medical audience (like this one).

Re: Why aren't fentanyl test strips more widespread? (2021)

#106

Post by raxxorraxor »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #49
guerrilla wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So when you remove all coercive policies whatsoever (because of abstract academic arguments that equivocate all policies short of giving out free drugs and free money and turning a blind eye to dealers), you manifestly end up nurturing a base of hard-core, long-term addicts. Except that's not at all what happened in Portugal (or in other European programs)...?

> Except that's not at all what happened in Portugal (or in other European programs)...? The Portugal narrative hasn't actually been as positive as initially reported by the Cato papers that were based on the first few years following the policy change. More recent data has shown an uptick of lifetime drug use and an increasing trend of drug deaths that doesn't really support the initially successful picture of their…

Drug usage increased in almost all places on the globe or perhaps we have better means to track it. You have to compare it with instances where drug prosecution is strict and those places saw an even higher rise in drug abuses and drug death. By significant margins in some cases bordering on a complete other magnitude. I think Fentanyl in the US is a good example although it also increased in Europe. In countries where usage and dealings are illegal too.

Re: Why aren't fentanyl test strips more widespread? (2021)

#107

Post by grapeskin »

HWR_14 wrote: post #62
grapeskin wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Free supply won’t really be a solution and I can’t imagine why it would. Would making junk food and soda free food end the obesity epidemic? Making it free will only make that area a hub for people seeking to get high. Portland, Seattle, and SF are already hot spots where people actively come because they know they can get high easily. Making it completely free is just an even bigger invitation. I think one of Americ…

Making it free keeps people from needing to break everyone's windows to get their next fix. It also allows them to use their money on food/rent/etc so they are less likely to wind up homeless. It also means that they congregate in one area, so it's easier to provide resources if they decide to seek help. It also prevents, you know, fentanyl from getting into the supply, having people get more addicted to a stronger d…

There’s also the reality that people who don’t want to go through the shame and trouble of finding a person who could give them a solid hookup and so never try heroin in the first place.

Drugs are partly an issue of convenience. An 18-21 year old who isn’t thinking much about the future and figures “why not” is more likely to try something if it’s free and “safe” due to being distributed by someone reputable than they are to try a grimy baggy that could have anything inside.

When people know they can get a good, pure LSD hookup, they’re more likely to try it. People are more concerned about trying random research chemicals because the effects are unknown—that keeps quite a few people from ever trying LSD or psychedelics as a whole. If people could drop by a volunteer-operated free distribution center, I’m pretty sure we’d have loads more people trying LSD. (Not that I’m saying LSD is deadly like heroin, but the fear of danger is keeping people away from it)

Re: Why aren't fentanyl test strips more widespread? (2021)

#108

Post by prawn »

woodruffw wrote: post #14
Havoc wrote: post #7

Can one even get stuff not laced with it these days? As a casual outside observer I thought no. In which case test strips are less useful

> In which case test strips are less useful Addiction is a powerful compulsion, but so is safety: an addict (or someone who isn't yet an addict) might choose not to use a particular batch if they have access to test strips. Even if they do choose to use: access to test strips allows them to plan for other harm reduction activities.

And surely it's useful to provide tools to those not yet fully down the addiction path?

My drug awareness extends little beyond watching The Wire, but I'd guess users might test before purchasing or be more likely to work with dealers who would accommodate testing. In theory, at least.

It's all a multi-faceted problem and providing tools seems smart to me. It's remotely akin to being distressed about abortion but not keen on sex education or providing birth control. Attack the issues from all angles.

Re: Why aren't fentanyl test strips more widespread? (2021)

#109

Post by sph »

woodruffw wrote: post #16
rayiner wrote: post #5

> people who use drugs (PWUD) New acronym just dropped. :-/

It's consistent with the practice of using "people-first language"[1]. It sounds a little clunky to my ears in a lot of individual instances, but the overarching goal (making it harder to subconsciously dehumanize people) seems reasonable to me. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People-first_language

Ah yes, because an acronym is more humanising that "drug user."

Re: Why aren't fentanyl test strips more widespread? (2021)

#110

Post by orwin »

lostmsu wrote: post #92
humbleguy wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a very misguided view. Majority of drug users are all around you, regular people who have families and hold jobs - your friends, your relatives, your coworkers. Just like majority of people who drink alcohol aren't alcoholics, majority of drug users aren't addicts.

Somehow I doubt that majority of drug users are from healthy families with kids.

Most drug user I've seen were in private clubs in Paris or Nice/Monaco where the entry ticket was north of 150 euros

I also saw about 12 different heroin addicts in the streets next to my home, but tbh they were a lot less loud, aggressive and/or obnoxious than the alcoholics.

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