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Grandpa’s Basement House

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Re: Grandpa’s Basement House

#101

Post by watwut »

deltarholamda wrote: post #47
rvba wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Looking at the /r/fuckhoa subreddit it seems that those homeovner associations are on level of North Korea and Soviet Russia - someone can come to your property (didnt happen in Eastern Europe even during communism), spy on you, fine you for not parking your car at the garage, fine you 500 dollars for putting a motorcycle outside your house, fine you for having drapes of different color, fine you for having a dog...…

> it seems that those homeovner associations are on level of North Korea and Soviet Russia The HOA is an agreement that is designed to keep a neighborhood from going downhill by residents parking on the street, or turning their yard into a parking lot, or from painting their house some atrocious color. As normally designed, they are little more than a codification of "don't be a jerk." The problem comes when people g…

I can assure you that places without HOA generally don't have all that many atrocious houses. Nor do they have whole yards turned into park lots.

Re: Grandpa’s Basement House

#102

Post by whatshisface »

Etheryte wrote: post #100
gardenmwm wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because other peoples property effects my my property, in value and enjoyment.

This is absurd. Other people don't have to live their life a certain way just because that makes you happy.

If in a system of perfect liberty two people have a right to enter in to a contract, and three people have a right to enter in to a contract, and, inductively, as many people who want to live in a housing division have a right to enter in to a contract, then yes, yes they do.

Re: Grandpa’s Basement House

#103

Post by JetSetWilly »

quesera wrote: post #19
tomcam wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Those kinds of folk need representation the most. An understandable sentiment. How much are you willing to pay for it? If you have a $1.5 million mortgage and that loon shows up next door and paints their house purple, your house might lose $300,000 in value. Same with the other neighbors, who also pay mortgages but aren’t as compassionate as you. What happens when your spouse gets a sudden offer to relocate and yo…

> your house might lose $300,000 in value Dramatic license aside, I'd hate to live anywhere where property value (or residents' senses of well-being) was so fragile that it couldn't handle a purple house.

They would hate to live in Tobermory I suppose: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Tobermory_Main_Stree...

Re: Grandpa’s Basement House

#104

Post by gardenmwm »

Etheryte wrote: post #100
gardenmwm wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because other peoples property effects my my property, in value and enjoyment.

This is absurd. Other people don't have to live their life a certain way just because that makes you happy.

No, but common courtesy and cleanliness is something that makes me happy. I’ve lived in neighborhoods that have had rat problems because of a single home that kept trash everywhere. Should I be inconvenienced because someone doesn’t want to do the bare minimum to upkeep their property? Would you be ok if I moved next door to you and hung nazi flags (this has happened to me as well)? When people behave in ways that infringe upon my life, yeah I can be irritated and want to live in an area that they aren’t allowed to do that. People who won’t respect others can continue to live in areas that let them get away with it. I won’t live like that anymore.

Re: Grandpa’s Basement House

#105

Post by whatshisface »

lupire wrote: post #85
com2kid wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't get people who genuinely care for its own sake about their neighbors lawn having weeds. Certain types of invasive plans are noxious, outright poisonous, encourage hay fever, or just spread so fast that they can end up destroying neighbor's yards as well. Plants don't obey property lines. Edit: Unkempt yards can also be breeding ground for pests. From mosquitoes in still water to hoards of rats. Most people…

These are all already torts or illegal under municipal law.

Unfortunately, the court system is not friction-less enough for "your weeds got in my yard" to be a remotely workable reason to go to court. It would be nice to live in a society where justice flowed as freely as municipal water and common law obviated the need for all other forms of organization or regulation, but in the real world going to court is so expensive and time-consuming that we need a lot of other forms of power around to avoid overusing that method.

If you have a plan for reforming the local judiciary to be so effective that HOAs are no longer necessary I am all ears, but I have not heard any proposals for doing that.

Re: Grandpa’s Basement House

#106

Post by vmladenov »

lupire wrote: post #86
voakbasda wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Weed seeds blow across property lines and create problems for other people. It creates an undue burden on those that want to maintain a garden or other curated flora.

Maybe going to war against natural native plants is a losing battle...

Why do you assume the weeds in question are native and not invasive?

Re: Grandpa’s Basement House

#107

Post by [deleted] »

gorgoiler wrote: post #3

The idea of HOAs having any kind of say feels so undemocratic, but not in a standard way. We should not tolerate purely popular democracies. We allow representative democracies, and part of that public contract is for our leaders to represent all those in their constituency, not just those who voted for them. That means those in the minority. The crazy guy growing gourds instead of a lawn. The loon with the purple ho…

[deleted]

Re: Grandpa’s Basement House

#108

Post by ajmurmann »

gorgoiler wrote: post #3

The idea of HOAs having any kind of say feels so undemocratic, but not in a standard way. We should not tolerate purely popular democracies. We allow representative democracies, and part of that public contract is for our leaders to represent all those in their constituency, not just those who voted for them. That means those in the minority. The crazy guy growing gourds instead of a lawn. The loon with the purple ho…

I suspect HOAs are even less democratic than you describe. My wife was president of a small HOA for the last 5 years or so. Most of the community wasn't involved at all. My wife's main job was to work with the management company to keep things sane and the few other people who were involved in check and preventing overreach. At the same time it's hard to change the existing HOA rules. I don't even know where the HOA comes from. It predates almost everyone who still lives here. I suspect the developers put it in place. So likely none of the current residents had any input in the rules and bylaws. At one point someone pushed for dissolving the HOA. That was quickly abandoned one the management company laid out the legal process which was overwhelming and didn't seem worth it to anyone

Re: Grandpa’s Basement House

#109

Post by JumpCrisscross »

rayiner wrote: post #97
spacemanmatt wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IIRC, we call it racist without the scare-quotes because of it's disproportional effect. That's how that word works.

> That's how that word works. Incorrect. In ordinary usage, “racism” means prejudice based on race. There are efforts by some to muddy its meaning, to encompass both racial prejudice and “disproportionate effect,” but that’s not the common usage.

> In ordinary usage, “racism” means prejudice based on race. There are efforts by some to muddy its meaning, to encompass both racial prejudice and “disproportionate effect,” but that’s not the common usage.

Thank you. For some reason I've never been able to explain it so succinctly when two people I respect get into an obviously semantic argument around something being or not being racist and then getting lost in the weeds of the intentions of the long dead.

Re: Grandpa’s Basement House

#110

Post by WalterBright »

com2kid wrote: post #64
cm2012 wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I get people wanting HOAs to maintain property values (Though I am not one of them, I chose a neighborhood with no HOA on purpose). I don't get people who genuinely care for its own sake about their neighbors lawn having weeds. Or the house having an unusual paint color. Who cares??

> I don't get people who genuinely care for its own sake about their neighbors lawn having weeds. Certain types of invasive plans are noxious, outright poisonous, encourage hay fever, or just spread so fast that they can end up destroying neighbor's yards as well. Plants don't obey property lines. Edit: Unkempt yards can also be breeding ground for pests. From mosquitoes in still water to hoards of rats. Most people…

Hay fever comes from grass. Less grass makes me more comfortable at home.

Rats come from having edible garbage available and fruit trees dropping fruit.

The most annoying things about neighbors are dogs that bark all day, and the leafblowers and lawnmowers.

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