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Firefox appears to be flagged as suspicious by Cloudflare

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Re: Firefox appears to be flagged as suspicious by Cloudflare

#101

Post by robonerd »

Semaphor wrote: post #92
robonerd wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You have to trust a whole lot of companies to get onto and use the Internet. Obviously, I wouldn't dream of asserting otherwise. My point is that for the vast majority of the population, a paragraph of technogibberish about cryptography doesn't fundamentally change anything, you're still reliant on trust. To most people, that paragraph is worth about as much as a basic promise. The worth of that statement is derive…

I searched around a bit, and the only thing I found was the EFF not complaining about it when mentioning it while talking about something else [0]: > This proposal is based on Privacy Pass, a privacy-preserving and frustration-reducing alternative to CAPTCHAs. So I guess that’s good-ish? [0]: https://www.eff.org/tr/deeplinks/2019/08/dont-play-googles-p...

It's worth a bit, but it doesn't assuage all my concerns. Even with trust in the EFF to be both well informed and earnest, I think there is still reason for doubt. I've read it claimed many times that cryptography is easy to fuck up in subtle ways, and that these fuckups can go unnoticed for years. Furthermore, subtle flaws can be deliberately engineered into cryptographic schemes and probably concealed from notice for many years. The more novel a cryptographic scheme seems, the more reason there is to doubt that it's been inspected and verified from all angles. I've never heard of VOPRFs before today, they don't seem to have a wikipedia page and the articles I've found about them with a web search are all very recent.

Furthermore, there is the matter of Cloudflare itself, specifically it's size and scope. Concentrations of data are magnets for intelligence agencies. The more data a company has access to, the less I trust them to keep it safe.

Re: Firefox appears to be flagged as suspicious by Cloudflare

#102

Post by OJFord »

detritus wrote: post #54
OJFord wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't even have another browser installed.

I'm an ex-webnik who still occasionally dabbles in web design, so have all of them installed. Unused, mostly, but installed :)

I probably should, for the same reason - I did recentlyish use Array.sort in a way that turned out to work only in Firefox...

Re: Firefox appears to be flagged as suspicious by Cloudflare

#103

Post by pjmlp »

simion314 wrote: post #89
ocdtrekkie wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately there are literally activists promoted to ending that final stand protecting the open web.

The reality is people want freedom to use Firefox or Chrome in iOs, they don't want a monopoly , imagine if Microsoft would not have allowed you to install a third pary browser unless it uses their engine and it accepts their rules, then we would all still use IE6 but with different themes and superficial features. Safari needs to implement the standards and offer decent performance, adding on top of that very good i…

Beware of one wishes for, in the end they will get Chrome everywhere anyway, because Firefox doesn't really matter, and there are no Web standards other than what Google is pushing from ChromeOS as standards, Project Fugus, Houdini, WebUSB, Web Bluetooth,...

Re: Firefox appears to be flagged as suspicious by Cloudflare

#106

Post by mynameisvlad »

robonerd wrote: post #86
mynameisvlad wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have to trust a whole lot of companies to get onto and use the Internet. Or just use everyday technology. I don't see why this is different.

> You have to trust a whole lot of companies to get onto and use the Internet. Obviously, I wouldn't dream of asserting otherwise. My point is that for the vast majority of the population, a paragraph of technogibberish about cryptography doesn't fundamentally change anything, you're still reliant on trust. To most people, that paragraph is worth about as much as a basic promise. The worth of that statement is derive…

That extends to pointing out that trust is required. When it's the default state of things, what use is pointing it out going to bring?

I made an obvious point because it's strange to bring up that something on the internet requires trust. Because of course it does.

Re: Firefox appears to be flagged as suspicious by Cloudflare

#107

Post by kordlessagain »

Aachen wrote: post #2

I mean, with that market share, popularity among open source fans... it's an easy group to target and filter oddballs. I'm a Firefox user and I'm used to this treatment at every step of the way, no matter if it's about software, airports, opening a bank account so I can receive a salary, etc. Fundamental things everyone wants to do are being made hard to do the right way. It's always anti privacy, anti self repair, a…

Firefox is fast, so maybe it's getting flagged because people are using it with webdriver to crawl sites. Just a hypothesis.

Re: Firefox appears to be flagged as suspicious by Cloudflare

#108

Post by GekkePrutser »

Aachen wrote: post #2

I mean, with that market share, popularity among open source fans... it's an easy group to target and filter oddballs. I'm a Firefox user and I'm used to this treatment at every step of the way, no matter if it's about software, airports, opening a bank account so I can receive a salary, etc. Fundamental things everyone wants to do are being made hard to do the right way. It's always anti privacy, anti self repair, a…

I don't even have chrome installed and never need it to be honest.

Except for some boneheaded sites that refuse FF entirely ( https://business.apple.com is such an offender) I don't have issues with sites not working.

Edit: it looks like even Apple has got their act together now, it seems to support Firefox now too. Finally

Re: Firefox appears to be flagged as suspicious by Cloudflare

#109

Post by simion314 »

pjmlp wrote: post #103
simion314 wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reality is people want freedom to use Firefox or Chrome in iOs, they don't want a monopoly , imagine if Microsoft would not have allowed you to install a third pary browser unless it uses their engine and it accepts their rules, then we would all still use IE6 but with different themes and superficial features. Safari needs to implement the standards and offer decent performance, adding on top of that very good i…

Beware of one wishes for, in the end they will get Chrome everywhere anyway, because Firefox doesn't really matter, and there are no Web standards other than what Google is pushing from ChromeOS as standards, Project Fugus, Houdini, WebUSB, Web Bluetooth,...

So should we all suffer because Apple is greedy and fails to win in a fair fight with Google Chrome ?

Re: Firefox appears to be flagged as suspicious by Cloudflare

#110

Post by judge2020 »

prdonahue wrote: post #100

(I’m responsible for Cloudflare’s L7 security products) While we can’t comment on the specifics of any customer configuration, we do not block or challenge Firefox by default—either with our Bot Management products or with any other L7 security controls. You can confirm this by signing up a free zone and making a request from Firefox.

To add, without knowing the homepage firewall rule g2 has set up, we won't know exactly what sort of rules is triggering this, although the most likely signals they're using are either bot scores[0] or threat scores[0].

0: https://developers.cloudflare.com/bots/concepts/bot-score/

1: https://support.cloudflare.com/hc/en-us/articles/200170056-U...

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