Chat control: EU Commission presents mass surveillance plan on May 11 • Hacker News Board

Re: Chat control: EU Commission presents mass surveillance plan on May 11

#101

Post by guelo » Tue, May 10, 2022, 6:28 PM UTC

throw93232 wrote: post #81

mildmotive wrote: post #26

These tyrants have to be stopped. A tyrannical government is far more dangerous to people, including children than your regular criminal. Ironically, by giving the state too much power and therefore increasing the symptoms of corruption, we allow the same sort of crimes to be practiced by corrupt state officials with little means for people enact accountability. China, the country with the most mass-surveillance in t…

Quoted post unavailable.

I'd never heard the phrase child groomers until a couple months ago and now it's everywhere. Same with CRT a few months before that. People talk about "liberal media" but nothing holds a candle to the power of right wing media to manufacture constant outrages over and over again. They've elevated Two Minutes Hate to an art form.

Re: Chat control: EU Commission presents mass surveillance plan on May 11

#102

Post by kvetching » Tue, May 10, 2022, 6:28 PM UTC

Complete and total invasion of privacy. They always choose the most egregious crime to push through a cecession of rights. If you oppose this, you are supporting pedophiles. But fuck them. Don't let them gaslight you.

There are countless broken laws that could be caught if only they could see our data.

How long until they force Google or Apple to report someone to the authorities if their GPS says they are travelling 100mph on a road.

How long until there is AI that can use your biometrics to determine if you are too impaired to drive?

Re: Chat control: EU Commission presents mass surveillance plan on May 11

#103

Post by orwin » Tue, May 10, 2022, 6:29 PM UTC

lucideer wrote: post #67

joebob42 wrote: post #6

I don't understand who wants this. does any of their actual constituency want it? Or is it literally just the actual elected officials getting power hungry? Stuff like abortion, etc where I don't really understand the other side. I've at least met real people who are pro life. I've never met the people who want these clownish surveillance things but they keep coming up anyways.

> does any of their actual constituency want it? While one can technically argue that the EU Commission has constituency, it's worth noting that it's a few layers of abstraction away: Commissioners are typically people with industry background who are nominated by the "EU Council". The EU Council is in turn made up of state leaders. (The "EU Parliament" is a separate body that is actually elected by voters). Lobbyist…

He basically destroyed Bull's engineering culture, and still help them get contracts they don't deserve, by "subtle" political pressure. If you want to get on European PPPs as a tech company, better have good relation with Bull/Atos.

My former manager worked at Thompson during Breton's presence there, let's say he was unsurprised when he learned about the suicide waves at France Telecom.

I don't know much about corruption, but he is the prime example of what i would consider corruption in France.

Re: Chat control: EU Commission presents mass surveillance plan on May 11

#104

Post by thatguy0900 » Tue, May 10, 2022, 6:29 PM UTC

GaylordTuring wrote: post #83

In theory (and in practice today), I’m strongly against this. However, I see a future where you will have to choose between mass surveillance or something close to extinction. I might be wrong, but as technology progress, it seems almost inevitable that a single individual can do more and more damage. An amount of damage it took half an army to achieve a couple of hundred years ago, one individual can do today with t…

I mean, just based on evidence it seems like not many people are that crazy, and the ones who are are not in the state of mind for very well made plans. Already it would be easy to strap a pipe bomb with sharapnel to a drone and blow it up anywhere, but that hasnt happened. https://www.boredpanda.com/story-radioactive-boy-scout-david... most everything is really doable if you want to cause some damage. i think any ai surveillance overlord will be only on the premise of danger and it will be very overblown

Re: Chat control: EU Commission presents mass surveillance plan on May 11

#105

Post by eointierney » Tue, May 10, 2022, 6:29 PM UTC

Nope.

And I say that as a committed european and general approver of the EU.

This is daft and contrary to fundamental human rights but as is so often the case in such matters it points towards the obvious solution.

Do not rely on third party services for human rights. In other words self-host.

Yes self-hosting is tedious and error-prone. It also means I am the only individual running daft but compliant algorithms on my data, and that's enough. If I witness criminality I am already obliged to perform my civic duties.

I really, truly, utterly, neither require nor desire some twerp in a pink shirt pushing new marketing analysis methodologies on the enforcers of an data analysis regime legislated poorly by dementocrats.

So, yeah, nope.

Re: Chat control: EU Commission presents mass surveillance plan on May 11

#106

Post by importantmsg » Tue, May 10, 2022, 6:29 PM UTC

JacobiX wrote: post #31

Imagine the cost of all the compliance procedures that a tech company should implement in the EU: GDPR, Digital Markets Act, and maybe in the future: Chat control. I think that the EU is putting barriers to entry that can backfire and harm its own tech companies, even if the initial plan is limiting the influence of US corporations for digital services.

EU is economically a wasteland. Almost every traded company is 50 years old or more and derived from old national monopolies.

European Commission efforts at "strengthening the union" are desperate attempts to reap even larger monopoly rents on the government account, to offset the secular decline.

Re: Chat control: EU Commission presents mass surveillance plan on May 11

#107

Post by m12k » Tue, May 10, 2022, 6:30 PM UTC

Ugh, the EU should be enshrining the right to privacy as a human right, and instead we get this garbage.

Re: Chat control: EU Commission presents mass surveillance plan on May 11

#108

Post by caterpi11ar » Tue, May 10, 2022, 6:30 PM UTC

arcticbull wrote: post #61

joebob42 wrote: post #6

I don't understand who wants this. does any of their actual constituency want it? Or is it literally just the actual elected officials getting power hungry? Stuff like abortion, etc where I don't really understand the other side. I've at least met real people who are pro life. I've never met the people who want these clownish surveillance things but they keep coming up anyways.

Abortion is especially strange since a supermajority of Americans, across the political spectrum, of both genders, generally agree that some abortions should be permitted [1]. 70% want to keep the status quo. [2] It's even arguably a violation of the religious freedom of Jewish folks to ban abortion [3]. It's not forbidden by the Bible either - the Bible makes it clear that life begins 'at first breath' (Genesis 2:7)…

That Bible passage is about God blowing His breath into Adam who was non-biological clay up to that point. It has nothing to do with Adam taking his first breath. Obviously, Adam was never a foetus, nor was he a child, nor a teenager. As according to this passage life starts when you are a full grown man, should we allow abortions into the 108th trimester?

Re: Chat control: EU Commission presents mass surveillance plan on May 11

#109

Post by unethical_ban » Tue, May 10, 2022, 6:31 PM UTC

GaylordTuring wrote: post #83

In theory (and in practice today), I’m strongly against this. However, I see a future where you will have to choose between mass surveillance or something close to extinction. I might be wrong, but as technology progress, it seems almost inevitable that a single individual can do more and more damage. An amount of damage it took half an army to achieve a couple of hundred years ago, one individual can do today with t…

Yes. This kind of scenario is really frightening. It's why we need to expand colonies off world.

There isn't much to add except that I've had the exact same thought several times before.

Re: Chat control: EU Commission presents mass surveillance plan on May 11

#110

Post by codeguro » Tue, May 10, 2022, 6:31 PM UTC

unethical_ban wrote: post #93

vinyl7 wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only difference is now the government says "give me your stuff or I beat you" rather than your neighbor

If I had bezos money, I would buy a large swath of arable land, build a large wall around it, and offer 100k so called libertarians to walk in with some supplies. But they couldn't form government. Absolutely no form of mandatory taxation of any kind. And once they went in, they would be committed for five years. Oh, since we can't have them benefiting from positive outcomes of collective action, we'll pipe in pollut…

> Oh, since we can't have them benefiting from positive outcomes of collective action, we'll pipe in polluted air and river waste to help simulate a truly free market environmental policy.

That’s a completely artificial and shoehorned idea. If you want to prove a point about libertarians, do it properly in a closed system. They must be left to their own devices and are left to clean their own pollution.