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The End of Industrial Society

palladiummag.com

101–110 of 203 posts

Re: The End of Industrial Society

#101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The idea of those who favor "kings and aristocracy" is more that we'll always have people around with more power than others (elites), and that formal transparency about who these people are ultimately improves accountability. Would you work for a faux "anarcho-tyrannyist" firm where you have no idea who the CEO is and who the managers are that can fire you or cut your salary?

That, of course, is ultimately extremely defeatist compared to the ideals that the USA claims (the practice and history, on the other hand, would be another discussion). One of the things the right wing (especially the religious right) in the US does far better than any other groups is to claim lofty egalitarian or noble-minded principals while not applying them to themselves. But if we throw that out, and want to em…

>>After all, we know disruption and innovation rarely comes from big incumbents. Tax the shit out of them and turn that into funding and options for the rest.

Making it less likely that companies become very large, profitable and valuable discourages investment in companies of all sizes, by reducing returns on small cap and venture capital investing.

As for direct effectd, "taxing the shit out of" the rich, as you suggest, would impact far more than large incumbents. It would reduce the incentive for the rich to invest in general, by reducing the size of the reward for becoming very wealthy, encourage capital flight and expatriation of the highly ambitious and capable, and reduce the after-tax income of the best investors, and with it, the volume of new investment.

Re: The End of Industrial Society

#102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not like I'm inventing anything here. Back in the times and places where noble titles were taken seriously as markers of increased social legitimacy, stripping people of them was an acknowledged thing. Far more reversible than things like the guillotine, which in practice was way more comparable to your human-to-mulch machine - and that in its long-range society-wide effects, as much as its more immediate ones.

> Back in the times and places where noble titles were taken seriously as markers of increased social legitimacy, stripping people of them was an acknowledged thing. It was not an "acknowledged thing." It was a bloody, brutal affair. Men fighting for titles is probably the one thing that measures up to religion in terms of lives lost. And all of this before refuting the central point: the duke of some random duchy in…

That wasn't just men fighting for titles, it was quite literally men fighting for their turf. The modern equivalent would be an all-out war among drug cartels. Later on, with the onset of the early modern era powerful monarchies managed to check the violence and gradually turned noble titles into more of a social reward for public services rendered. This is the context that those who view "kings and aristocracies" positively might have in mind.

Re: The End of Industrial Society

#103
post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please. I mean, yes, but we should be 'doubly skeptical' of everything from The Atlantic, the New Yorker, the NYT, Fox, Bloomberg and WSJ and Foreign Policy as well.

Yes. I really wish more people knew that Jeffrey Goldberg, editor in chief at the Atlantic, literally beat political prisoners bloody while he was an IDF prison guard at the world's largest detainment camp.

It’s deleted now, or maybe on the internet archive, but one of the best rebuttals from Internet comments I’ve ever seen was on a Goldberg piece about the trope of neocon puppet masters claiming he had a superior spidey sense of what was anti-Semitic and what wasn’t. The killer punchline at the end was “Buck up, Geppetto!”

Re: The End of Industrial Society

#104
post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have to remember the basic idea behind a lot of these word salads is that "We need to return to kings and aristocracy" and that "Of course I am a high iq intellectual who will be the nobility and not a feudal worker, why is there any doubt?". Everything starts making sense then.

It’s uncomfortable for the Thiel-funded new right movement that their dream state is essentially realized in present-day Russia, and they’re not able to explain how their ideas would lead to a different outcome. Protectionist policies, focus on national identity, celebration of traditional values and gender roles; a “national CEO” whose transformative powers transcend the slow, frustrating democratic machinery. This…

It's interesting because present-day Russia easily combines every disadvantage of the neo-Reactionary dream state, and none of its advantages. Vladimir Putin still has to fight for his legitimacy (in a way that plausibly distorts his policy choices) because he has not leveraged his mass public support by proclaiming himself an actual Tsar. (Of course he could also settle for a far more conventional role as legitimate President of a democratic nation state, but many observers would argue that he seems to be aiming at something different. Which is why this is a sensible question to begin with.)

Re: The End of Industrial Society

#105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have to remember the basic idea behind a lot of these word salads is that "We need to return to kings and aristocracy" and that "Of course I am a high iq intellectual who will be the nobility and not a feudal worker, why is there any doubt?". Everything starts making sense then.

The idea of those who favor "kings and aristocracy" is more that we'll always have people around with more power than others (elites), and that formal transparency about who these people are ultimately improves accountability. Would you work for a faux "anarcho-tyrannyist" firm where you have no idea who the CEO is and who the managers are that can fire you or cut your salary?

It's interesting: Thiel's "truth that few people agree with you" is that capitalism & competition are antonyms, not complements. And he's in favor of the "capitalism" side. His whole business career is about eliminating competition and enjoying monopoly rents. A return to "kings and aristocracy" is the ultimate culmination of this: a king has ultimate monopoly power over the kingdom, where they not only own all the land, but have ultimate say over everything that goes on in the kingdom.

There's an opposing side to this dichotomy though: embrace competition. American democracy, with its separation of powers, is an example of this. The founding fathers explicitly set the government at odds with itself, because when "ambition is made to counteract ambition", the ambitious are so busy fighting each other that ordinary businessmen and citizens can go about their business relatively unmolested.

To answer your question: I'd absolutely work for an anarcho-tyrannist firm where I have no idea who the CEO is and managers can fire me on a moments whim, as long as I can walk into another firm tomorrow and get a new job. Job loss is only traumatic if all your eggs are in that one basket; if there's always another job waiting for you, just go get fired and take it.

Re: The End of Industrial Society

#107
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And also nutty statements like this: > Americans and Europeans may at that point be de-facto barred from visiting China by their own governments ...which seems to indicate a lack of familiarity with the relationship between American+European governments and their citizens.

As an EU citizen I was de facto forbidden to enter other EU countries until relatively recently (because of the pandemic), not sure why do you find that conclusion far-fetched. Also, because I may want to actually visit the US sometime in the future I've been making a conscious decision not to visit Iran, for example (even though I find Iran to be a beautiful country, at least from the photos I can find on the web).…

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Re: The End of Industrial Society

#108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The idea of those who favor "kings and aristocracy" is more that we'll always have people around with more power than others (elites), and that formal transparency about who these people are ultimately improves accountability. Would you work for a faux "anarcho-tyrannyist" firm where you have no idea who the CEO is and who the managers are that can fire you or cut your salary?

It's interesting: Thiel's "truth that few people agree with you" is that capitalism & competition are antonyms, not complements. And he's in favor of the "capitalism" side. His whole business career is about eliminating competition and enjoying monopoly rents. A return to "kings and aristocracy" is the ultimate culmination of this: a king has ultimate monopoly power over the kingdom, where they not only own all the l…

The separation of powers could be expanded to a far greater extent. In particular the modern bureaucratic state, with its long-term sinecure positions at the highest levels, is entirely antithetical to the whole idea of checks and balances, or "ambition being made to counteract ambition". This is where former aristocracies might provide a better model.

Re: The End of Industrial Society

#109
post #57
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So far yours is the only substantive response to the post (edit: although a few others popped up after I wrote this). I agree with most of the broad ideas you bring up which are insightful. However, the tone of your comment does not seem to be quite acknowledging that we are in reality now in a somewhat dire situation. Anyway I have a few questions. I too see many issues with "managerial/profit driven development" an…

> do you suppose that we should remove the profit motive? What do we replace it with? Not remove, layer it. In the past we have had public universities and big "free" "innovation labs" from private those NOT managerial driven but just "we have big money, we fund some very skilled technicians who innovate on their own and see the outcome, something very nice for our business will appear". Such model have produced the…

> Money must be a unit of measure of a substrate, determined, not owned, by the public, no private parties involved. A symbol we use to weight nearly anything

Maybe you can give me an example or reference? I don't understand what you mean.

Re: The End of Industrial Society

#110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All that can be true while palladium can also be one of the only publications that grapples with big theories and forecasts of geo politics and social shifts. Are there many others? FP seems more focused on essays targeted at an audience of one written for ver specific inside baseball reasons. HBR and the likes have become laughable top 10 lists and passing superficial junk.

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Mind to provide some recommendation of "serious publications"? Academic journals would be fine as well.

I want to learn more about the politcal theory and relevant social economic grand thinking and mechanisms design.

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