This whole interaction, on both sides, is childish and makes our entire profession look bad by reinforcing the stereotypes peoples have of us. I would avoid working with anyone involved in this.
When I tell the Windows Terminal team something is simple, I am "misguided"
101–110 of 476 posts
Re: When I tell the Windows Terminal team something is simple, I am "misguided"
#102Earlier quoted context omitted.
try looking for the word "apology" edit: > We know we have so much more to learn, but we hope that you will accept our apology and understand we’re humans behind this product with a capability and willingness to learn from our past mistakes. If someone said that to me, I would say "oh ok, no problem dude" and move on with my life. Not even defending the microsoft guy, I have zero skin in the game and couldn't care le…
Sticking the word "apology" on a letter does not make it an apology.
But sticking "Sorry" does? Your whole post was Ctrl-F for a keyword, while refusing a synonym.
Re: When I tell the Windows Terminal team something is simple, I am "misguided"
#103Another day, another Casey post dunking on my team. Hi! This tweet misses the mark only a little bit; in a previous blog post, we apologized[1] pretty frankly to everyone involved in this discussion. I'll admit that we didn't list him by name, but neither did we list the other handful of folks involved. We should have. In turn, Casey rightly did not acknowledge it except to tell his followers that it was not a real a…
When I read your tone here, I don't even need to read your “apology” to know that it was not a real apology.
No, Microsoft doesn't suck. It's a great company. It's some people there that suck, and one just got self-identified.
Re: When I tell the Windows Terminal team something is simple, I am "misguided"
#104Look at the settings menu, it looks like a setting menu from iOS, huge controls, everything is a list, endless scrolling No wonder why they didn't know what they were doing So that kind of behavior doesn't surprise me What's even more surprising is it's the same for everything windows related, including windows 11, performance issues all over the place, nobody acknowledge it, and whenever they face criticism and comp…
OS dev is dead everywhere.
Who knew hiring based on leetcode would backfire
Re: When I tell the Windows Terminal team something is simple, I am "misguided"
#105Earlier quoted context omitted.
try looking for the word "apology" edit: > We know we have so much more to learn, but we hope that you will accept our apology and understand we’re humans behind this product with a capability and willingness to learn from our past mistakes. If someone said that to me, I would say "oh ok, no problem dude" and move on with my life. Not even defending the microsoft guy, I have zero skin in the game and couldn't care le…
Sticking the word "apology" on a letter does not make it an apology.
Saying “accept our apology” does make it an apology.
Re: When I tell the Windows Terminal team something is simple, I am "misguided"
#106Another day, another Casey post dunking on my team. Hi! This tweet misses the mark only a little bit; in a previous blog post, we apologized[1] pretty frankly to everyone involved in this discussion. I'll admit that we didn't list him by name, but neither did we list the other handful of folks involved. We should have. In turn, Casey rightly did not acknowledge it except to tell his followers that it was not a real a…
- You and lhecker insulted Casey Muratori
- You insisted this was a "doctoral research" (your words) and that he was "misguided" (Leonard's words)
- When it turned out he was right, you posted a non-apology (you didn't even name the person you were apologizing to)
- A year later Leonard who claimed it was so hard now writes a blog post that "solution is trivial" and was "suggested by a community member". Once again failing to acknowledge the person who gave you this trivial solution
What more you could've done? What do you think?
Re: When I tell the Windows Terminal team something is simple, I am "misguided"
#107Another day, another Casey post dunking on my team. Hi! This tweet misses the mark only a little bit; in a previous blog post, we apologized[1] pretty frankly to everyone involved in this discussion. I'll admit that we didn't list him by name, but neither did we list the other handful of folks involved. We should have. In turn, Casey rightly did not acknowledge it except to tell his followers that it was not a real a…
> except to note that it was not an apology at all. Ctrl-F there doesn't show a single "sorry" in the text. Or "Casey" for that matter. Why is it so difficult to say: "Casey, we are sorry, you were right and we were mistaken.". Instead there is a nebulous ~extended a branch to community and hope to accept our apology~ (paraphrasing) without offering an apology in the first place.
https://www.wikihow.com/Make-a-Genuine-Apology
1. Know what you did wrong: > When confronted with being told our rendering pipeline had terrible performance, we turned inward. [...] We were wrong.
2. Keep it simple, being careful not to start up a fight, a disagreement, or open up the situation for further discussion or recriminations. Subjective. You decide.
3. Be prepared to meet resistance. They are here meeting their resistance.
4. ...I hope you will accept my apology. > we hope that you will accept our apology
5. Be polite. Subjective. You decide.
6. Remind the person of all the fun times that the two of you had together. > experience we can all learn from to not only improve ourselves
7. Try not to smile. It's text. Sure.
8. In some situations a small gift may serve as a token of apology. > As such, we dedicate this experimental renderer to the community as an olive branch.
9. Express yourself. > a capability and willingness to learn from our past mistakes.
10, 11 remain to be seen.
This is a good exhibit of an almost perfect apology. If you've been okay hearing "sorry" your entire life then I am afraid you've been lied to more often than not.
Re: When I tell the Windows Terminal team something is simple, I am "misguided"
#108Another day, another Casey post dunking on my team. Hi! This tweet misses the mark only a little bit; in a previous blog post, we apologized[1] pretty frankly to everyone involved in this discussion. I'll admit that we didn't list him by name, but neither did we list the other handful of folks involved. We should have. In turn, Casey rightly did not acknowledge it except to tell his followers that it was not a real a…
> I just don't know what else he's asking for here. Credit? Us to die screaming? ... We get it, Microsoft sucks, we should all be fired, rah rah rah. Someone is upset and venting. This comment comes across to me as "Ugh we already said the right words. Their distress is so inconvenient to me, why isn't it stopping?" EDIT: Typically in this community we denote when a comment has been edited to change a critical piece…
Everyone can rant. I think it's fine, at least a lot better than a faked smile.
Re: When I tell the Windows Terminal team something is simple, I am "misguided"
#109Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I also probably would not have responded favorably to that wording – irrespective of if they were correct. Why not? I see nothing wrong with this sort of feedback. It's blunt, but constructive.
If it was your code they were talking about, you may feel differently. Blunt, hyperbolic statements like "massively overcomplicated" can feel like a shot across the bow when someone is talking about code you wrote. Kindness and gentleness go a long way in OSS.
When you receive feedback like that, the appropriate response is: "A lot was learned while and since writing that code. Now that requirements and bottlenecks are more clear, it could surely be improved by doing a second pass. We might not get around to doing it soon, but PRs are welcome."
That kind of response is pretty much never an outright lie and will always make you look good.
Or... you could get defensive and turn it into a months-long saga of bile, half-assed apologies, and bad PR.
Re: When I tell the Windows Terminal team something is simple, I am "misguided"
#110Another day, another Casey post dunking on my team. Hi! This tweet misses the mark only a little bit; in a previous blog post, we apologized[1] pretty frankly to everyone involved in this discussion. I'll admit that we didn't list him by name, but neither did we list the other handful of folks involved. We should have. In turn, Casey rightly did not acknowledge it except to tell his followers that it was not a real a…
> I get it, Microsoft sucks, we should all be fired, rah rah rah.
Unironically, yes, UNLESS...
- You're willing to take a serious look in the mirror (and understand that the way you reacted to the situation was defensive, passive aggressive and inflammatory rather than direct, constructive and conciliatory)
- You assign credit where credit is due
- You do a good faith post-mortem and come up with some way to make sure this won't happen in the future
Now, if that happens, then obviously you should not be fired; if anything, you should be rewarded as handling difficult situations like this correctly tends to be the true test of one's capabilities as a professional. Unfortunately, it's high stakes, high rewards -- which also means high risks and consequences.
It's not easy to say "We made a mistake. Not only that, but there's no easy 1-shot fix to undo what went wrong. Let's sit down together and discuss, and we'll listen. Then, we'll go and think about that for a while and come back to you with where we align, where we differ; and so far as where we agree, where we think we can improve. What do you say?"
It may not be easy, but it's worth it.
Relationships are built in the muck.