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Porting Zelda Classic to the web

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Re: Porting Zelda Classic to the web

#101
post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am very aware of all of that. The idea that web assembly is not meant to be the platform to run primitives on stems from the political and technical approach initially used to get web assembly inserted into browsers. The basic concept is that it was much easier for people to accept if it was "only the compute part" and also practically speaking only made sense to leverage the extensive UI and other functionality of…

So, your complaint about wasm is that to make it useful we have to bundle it with a browser full of 1000's of APIs. And your solution is... start bundling Other APIs (mouse, keyboard, presumbly touch, a frame buffer) into wasm runtimes? Then I guess later people will also want, midi, serial/pipes, audio, simple GUI, shaders, opengl, accessibility, screen readers, sockets, account sign in, webcam acess, notifications…

No, what I am suggesting is to add the basic UI and audio stuff and leave it at that for a large class of applications.

Then the rest of the features should not be one monolothic bundle. Because what that does it make it so that you have to implement every API in order to be compatible with the platform. Which is impossible unless you are a large corporation.

The platform should be carefully explicitly designed to allow subsets of functionality to be implemented and distributed.

Again, starting with the very most basic UI stuff as one common chunk. Without all of the other features and devices.

The point of this is to make it feasible to have many implementations of different types of browsers or subsets of functionality. This prevents us from being locked into a single dominant vendor or two.

The information browsing can actually be the first subset of functionality. Very simple small vector images and a relatively small amount of RST or markdown. Many different groups can make information browsers.

Then you have the next level up / type of functionality which is basically web assembly SDL. This would be used separately but in conjunction with the information browsers.

You could standardize on another set of functionality with shaders and networking support. Or, if you do it right, it may be possible to create a common web assembly interface for each feature, and package up the additional features into something like device drivers which could be shared across "extended" browser implementations. This would allow for diversity of extended media browser implementations as well as alternative "drivers" to be available.

Re: Porting Zelda Classic to the web

#102
Just today I ended up giving up on HTML5 gamedev because of the Chrome extra frame of lag issue:

https://www.vsynctester.com/

If you have Godot or Unity or some other game engine that does web exports, try playing the native and web versions back-to-back of any game that draws a software mouse cursor, and don't hide the native hardware cursor so you can compare how much the software cursor lags the hardware cursor.

The cynic in me says Google deliberately adds lag to browser games to guard the multi-billions of Play Store game revenues. Web audio has 300ish millisecond latency on many (not all) Android devices.

Re: Porting Zelda Classic to the web

#103

I remember about 20 years ago there was a (IIRC) Java Applet-based multiplayer clone of Zelda: A Link to the Past that was sort of a forerunner the to MMORPGs we see today. It changed names to Graal Online because of the lawyers. Thinking back to it, it was really ahead of its time, not only because it was massively multiplayer, but it had a great level editor and was doing user-created content in the late '90s. --ed…

Wow lots of people here who played Graal. I spent 10 years of my life on that game and I can credit it with giving me my start in development. Learning to script for the game became my first step towards programming in general.

In fact, developing new content for the game became the fun itself.

Codein here btw (ignore the icky nickname - is what it is).

Re: Porting Zelda Classic to the web

#104

I remember about 20 years ago there was a (IIRC) Java Applet-based multiplayer clone of Zelda: A Link to the Past that was sort of a forerunner the to MMORPGs we see today. It changed names to Graal Online because of the lawyers. Thinking back to it, it was really ahead of its time, not only because it was massively multiplayer, but it had a great level editor and was doing user-created content in the late '90s. --ed…

I played Graal for 10+ years, mostly on Valikorlia, but I tossed around Era and Maloria too; I started some time between 2002 and 2005. But I didn't realize its main website had been taken down, as I was literally on it a few months ago. Did it die completely? I am no longer able to login with the client. That's too bad. It really was ahead of its time technologically; it's where my programming life got started and I…

This was my experience too :) Was a bit more promiscuous with where I helped out, including UN, Graal Kingdoms and Zone, but also spent a lot of time building my own playerworlds.

I owe my career to that game!

Re: Porting Zelda Classic to the web

#106

This is as awesome as it is illegal :) God speed to OP. https://torrentfreak.com/images/storman-judgment.pdf https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/4615448-Nintendo-Lov...

I don’t believe you read the article there… he ported zquest an engine remake which you can play with your original ie. self ripped Zelda rom.

[deleted]

Re: Porting Zelda Classic to the web

#107

This is as awesome as it is illegal :) God speed to OP. https://torrentfreak.com/images/storman-judgment.pdf https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/4615448-Nintendo-Lov...

Nintendo have had a conflicted stance about community projects over the years. From threatening UltraHLE (early Nintendo 64 emulator) developers back in the late 90s to largely ignoring the Wii exploits and homebrew scene in the mid-to-late 2000s to attempting to hire private investigators to identify and implicate 3DS homebrew developers in 'illegal' activities.

A similar case is when the PS3 Slim was released without OtherOS support and later removed from existing consoles with a firmware-update that really incited research and development into the PS3 console security, which led to a full break around late 2010 and Sony attempting to retaliate with smear-campaign and prosecution(s) for copyright infringement across the USA and Europe. Some of those were more successful than others.

There have been public emulators for recent consoles from Nintendo and Sony and they've managed to stay up without any cease-and-desist or lawsuits so one would imagine they are doing something correctly to protect themselves (such as not being associated with piracy and some of the shady monetisation involved with that).

Re: Porting Zelda Classic to the web

#108

Just today I ended up giving up on HTML5 gamedev because of the Chrome extra frame of lag issue: https://www.vsynctester.com/ If you have Godot or Unity or some other game engine that does web exports, try playing the native and web versions back-to-back of any game that draws a software mouse cursor, and don't hide the native hardware cursor so you can compare how much the software cursor lags the hardware cursor. T…

Oh thank goodness, so it's not just me who is driven insane by the mouse lag in browser input.

And while I understand your cynicism, I don't think it's deliberate as much as it's complacency, given that it's latency issues all the way down when it comes to modern user interfaces.

A literal decade ago Microsoft Research uploaded a video highlighting how much of an effect minimizing latency for touchscreens had on the user experience[0]. The vast majority of tablets still utterly suck in this regard a decade later, and I wonder if any manage to get below the 10ms barrier.

And of course there is Dan Luu's famous 2017 article on computer latency in general[1].

[0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vOvQCPLkPt4

[1] https://danluu.com/input-lag/

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