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Slack’s Incident on 2-22-22

slack.engineering

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Re: Slack’s Incident on 2-22-22

#101

Post by dylan604 »

sverhagen wrote: post #93
ascar wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Europeans only got it a little better. There is a reasonable argument for little endian dates (as in the least significant information is usually the most relevant as it changes most often), but apart from the "it has been like this forever" I don't see any reasonable argument for middle endian date formats. Then again, the US is notoriously resistant to the metric system too.

So, European in the US, here. I switch my dates stubbornly to DD-MM-YYYY, 'cause that's the only way. Of course I would. But then there's so many US applications that don't adhere to my settings and use MM-DD-YYYY. So then I am still deciphering 05-07-2020-kind of stuff. All. The. Freakin'. Time. :)

I frequently receive date data in Excel spreadsheets from the UK, but as a US user of Excel, I cannot convince it to interpret the date correctly. It is astonishingly bad at this.

Re: Slack’s Incident on 2-22-22

#102

Post by dylan604 »

chrisseaton wrote: post #96
gleenn wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Our Independence Day is probably a special case. Clearly language is flexible enough to say all the formats, but the date format we write matches the most common verbalization.

> people for hundreds of years have been saying "March second, nineteen sixty two" In many other English-speaking countries people usually say "the second of March, nineteen sixty two."

Ides of March vs March Ides....

twelve thirty or half twelve

color or colour

Re: Slack’s Incident on 2-22-22

#103

Post by jabbany »

diarrhea wrote: post #11

That date format is actually the worst I have ever encountered. m-d-y, with year in 2 digits, numbers not zero-padded, US "order" yet using dashes. It's like a moderator of /r/ISO8601 came up with the worst possible format on purpose . Am I missing something?

This. The use of dashes here is a bit annoying IMO ...

Not sure if this is standard but I usually see the delimiter being used to define the date format: big-endian y-m-d uses dashes, middle-endian m/d/y uses slashes, and d.m.y little-endian uses dots.

Re: Slack’s Incident on 2-22-22

#104

Post by spartanatreyu »

gleenn wrote: post #54
jonpurdy wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Came here to complain specifically about this. 2022-02-22 is unambiguous, big endian, and sorts nicely. IDK why society still uses any other date formats considering how international everything is.

It's because people for hundreds of years have been saying "March second, nineteen sixty two" which they then write out in that order. As a programmer, peoples' frustrations are understandable, but you're a bit naïve if you think even a percentage point of the speaking population of the world knows or is concerned with big endian-ness or sortability. However they speak English, at least in America, in that order, and…

I'm an Australian who occasionally has video chats with Americans overseas for work and regularly plays D&D online at least once a week with friends all over the world.

The only time I've every heard someone say " " or " the " is when talking with Americans.

Every other time it's always " of " or just "" for short.

Re: Slack’s Incident on 2-22-22

#105

Post by dragonwriter »

jabbany wrote: post #103
diarrhea wrote: post #11

That date format is actually the worst I have ever encountered. m-d-y, with year in 2 digits, numbers not zero-padded, US "order" yet using dashes. It's like a moderator of /r/ISO8601 came up with the worst possible format on purpose . Am I missing something?

This. The use of dashes here is a bit annoying IMO ... Not sure if this is standard but I usually see the delimiter being used to define the date format: big-endian y-m-d uses dashes, middle-endian m/d/y uses slashes, and d.m.y little-endian uses dots.

> Not sure if this is standard but I usually see the delimiter being used to define the date format:

No. Pretty much every separator / order combination is in regular use.

See the table under “Listing” at https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Date_format_by_country

Re: Slack’s Incident on 2-22-22

#106

Post by registeredcorn »

mistrial9 wrote: post #100
gleenn wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's because people for hundreds of years have been saying "March second, nineteen sixty two" which they then write out in that order. As a programmer, peoples' frustrations are understandable, but you're a bit naïve if you think even a percentage point of the speaking population of the world knows or is concerned with big endian-ness or sortability. However they speak English, at least in America, in that order, and…

plus plus to pragmatic - I have settled on 02feb2022 to write, and I do. Occassionally that finds its way into computer programs around here.

Same, but with spaces, and the month always full capitalized. I learned this habit in the Military as an alternative to 20220222. 22 FEB 2022 is nice because it's neither a string of numbers, which is very intimidating to read if it's written out to include hours minutes and seconds, like 20220222122222. It also completely bypasses the argument around month and day because the format includes spelling specific to the month.

If I'm writing a letter or addressing a specific thing in a formal context I chose to "revert" to the Month, Day Year because it's the social standard for the country I am in, and I want to fit into that cultural expectation, but if it's for a business document or normal chatter I think DD MMM YYYY is probably the clearest to both English & Non-English speakers. It eliminates the distractions I'd normally be dealing with when considering if I'm talking to someone out of country or not. It would be really great if it ends up being more widely adopted.

Re: Slack’s Incident on 2-22-22

#107

Post by mulmen »

ascar wrote: post #57
gleenn wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's because people for hundreds of years have been saying "March second, nineteen sixty two" which they then write out in that order. As a programmer, peoples' frustrations are understandable, but you're a bit naïve if you think even a percentage point of the speaking population of the world knows or is concerned with big endian-ness or sortability. However they speak English, at least in America, in that order, and…

> Europeans only got it a little better. There is a reasonable argument for little endian dates (as in the least significant information is usually the most relevant as it changes most often), but apart from the "it has been like this forever" I don't see any reasonable argument for middle endian date formats. Then again, the US is notoriously resistant to the metric system too.

I can’t wrap my head around a little endian date.

If you want to write the date little endian then you should do the same with the year. So today’s little-endian date is 26-04-2220. Or maybe that is 62-40-2220? Or is it 62-40-2202?

ISO8601 is the only sane date format. Anything else is only favored for familiarity.

Re: Slack’s Incident on 2-22-22

#108

Post by mulmen »

sverhagen wrote: post #93
ascar wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Europeans only got it a little better. There is a reasonable argument for little endian dates (as in the least significant information is usually the most relevant as it changes most often), but apart from the "it has been like this forever" I don't see any reasonable argument for middle endian date formats. Then again, the US is notoriously resistant to the metric system too.

So, European in the US, here. I switch my dates stubbornly to DD-MM-YYYY, 'cause that's the only way. Of course I would. But then there's so many US applications that don't adhere to my settings and use MM-DD-YYYY. So then I am still deciphering 05-07-2020-kind of stuff. All. The. Freakin'. Time. :)

European date format doesn’t make sense either. It still doesn’t sort and the little-endian date is composed of big-endian year, month, and day.

Putting the day first isn’t actually a benefit because you still need the year and month for context.

Any favoritism of the EU format is the same as the US format. Just familiarity.

ISO8601 is the only way.

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