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Hiring discrimination: a problem for men in female-dominated occupations

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Re: Hiring discrimination: a problem for men in female-dominated occupations

#101
post #67

During my career, I've seen enough discrimination in the name of DEI as well. But what bothers me more is the ageism. The number of times an old person has been rejected from a job is too damn high. The reasons have always been "he may not work well with young people", "seniority complex", "he is over qualified" etc. Most of the times, they were more than qualified. I fear when I am into 40s or 50s, I will face the s…

That's why I plan to retire at 35 :D

Re: Hiring discrimination: a problem for men in female-dominated occupations

#102
post #67

During my career, I've seen enough discrimination in the name of DEI as well. But what bothers me more is the ageism. The number of times an old person has been rejected from a job is too damn high. The reasons have always been "he may not work well with young people", "seniority complex", "he is over qualified" etc. Most of the times, they were more than qualified. I fear when I am into 40s or 50s, I will face the s…

It's kind of ageism-adjacent, but I wonder if some of it is a bias that expects that past 40 you shouldn't really be needing to apply to jobs by resume drops any more. So like, seeing that type of application is in an indication that the person's first twenty years of career haven't yielded the kinds of achievements and contact network that have bumped them out of the hustle and into the world where they no longer beg for jobs because they're being actively head-hunted.

Obviously, there are loads of reasons why this might legitimately be someone's situation, including midlife career-, locale- or industry-changes. But it could be another vector for bias.

Re: Hiring discrimination: a problem for men in female-dominated occupations

#103
In the US, male nurses are highly valued. I am not sure why this is not so in Sweden. On the other hand, people are wary of male preschool teachers. These two fields seem to be equivalent in Sweden.

In the US - Cleaners are not well paid. I am not sure why men want to join this field. The best cleaner I ever had left as soon as she landed a better paying job. I see plenty of husband and wife teams where the wife does the cleaning and the husband does the gardening. The husband is typically paid at least 30% more than the wife. Maybe this is a higher status job in Sweden?

Re: Hiring discrimination: a problem for men in female-dominated occupations

#105

Quoted post unavailable.

This reads as very sarcastic but these policies are just as bad if not worse for Asian men as well at this point. It’s Asian men who are suing Harvard over it, not white men.

And to be frank many women, Latinos, and others have expressed their frustrations about this to me as well. These policies are inherently toxic and divisive.

Re: Hiring discrimination: a problem for men in female-dominated occupations

#106
post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is why the Civil Rights Act passed when the congressman from Virginia (can't remember the name) tried to kill it by including women in the bill. A law designed to save the endangered black family was instead coopted to boost the career prospects of successful women, so I guess the poison pill worked despite the bill passing.

And still not much is being done to help them in practice. There’s a deep culture of classism in American corporations which these initiatives completely ignore, so the people who really need help and more opportunities don’t get much.

Most women leave the startup space regardless due to the sacrifices required by the system. It's the same with men but less so due to the cultural norms in American culture. This also applies to corporations. The lack of childcare leads to the inevitability as families are forced to decide who needs to stay at home to take care of their offspring. Typically it's the women as we condition them to take jobs with lower paying fields but also more complex issues such as lost experience and other issues that force them out. I'm not saying it's entirely sexism but rather a systemic issue that effects both men and women. A lot of feminist arguments are just plain wrong. It makes me wonder who is controlling those narratives to ignore the real issues for issues such as pay as we see in companies such as google when you account for experience and job titles the standing does not hold but my example is also flawed as google forces women to take certain careers and only hires women for certain things. Still very complex.

Re: Hiring discrimination: a problem for men in female-dominated occupations

#107

Anecdotally I have seen this in person at a large tech startup. The recruiting team was all women, mainly white, and they were incredibly cliquey. Every hire was a woman. Men were turned down with vague excuses like “not a culture fit.” All while aggressively pushing DEI initiatives and interventions on the tech side. I don’t think the irony of this ever crossed their minds.

"Your margin is my opportunity." Is this behavior significantly reducing the startup's competitiveness? If so, this should be exploitable by a competitor. Assuming you don't have the bandwidth to directly work for or advise a competitor of this type, you might still be able to benefit as an investor. If not... I have a hard time getting worked up about this. It's contrary to the dominant narrative, but if this female…

> if this female-dominated organization is actually doing a good job I'm inclined to leave them alone and pay more attention to biases that actually harm businesses

So your only metric for biased hiring practices being problematic is business performance??

Re: Hiring discrimination: a problem for men in female-dominated occupations

#108
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

> intelligence distribution skews more male at the higher end Really? You think there are inherently more intelligent men than women?

That's not what the parent comment said. You could see this picture even if average make intelligence was lower than female — all you need is a wider distribution.

Re: Hiring discrimination: a problem for men in female-dominated occupations

#109

Throwaway. I'm happy to have more women in tech and hope it occurs or continues. However, virtually everyone recruiting in tech has observed some toxic diversity initiatives, I would venture. Some examples I have seen personally or one degree removed from me. - pressure on HMs to hire more women despite 95% of applicants being male - people in interview panels openly saying "but he's a white man" / "do we want to hir…

>people in interview panels openly saying "but he's a white man" / "do we want to hire more white men" etc. Isn't this illegal?

In many states, discrimination laws only apply to "protected classes" , which is strictly defined as specific lists of races/religions/lgbt..

If you are white male, you are often not protected by these laws.

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