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The end of Insteon and why the smart home keeps faltering

staceyoniot.com

101–110 of 127 posts

Re: The end of Insteon and why the smart home keeps faltering

#101
post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Generally, home devices you might automate are things you interact with -- locally. Local controls for a local device work really well, and the simplicity is hard to beat. Home automation wants to interject poor controls between you and everything. No it doesn't. Only shitty "smart home" stuff does that. Home automation automates things. There is no need to control, because it happens without needing to do anything…

Off topic but what are you using for the button that triggers things? "The Button" is huge when it comes to the wife approval factor (or even my approval factor). Fiddling with phones or alexa to turn on and off lights is a pain in the ass...

Previously: Insteon KeypadLinc.

Currently: Zooz ZEN32.

Re: The end of Insteon and why the smart home keeps faltering

#102

What is the smart home supposed to do for me anyway? That's the thing that seems to me to be the reason for the failure of many of these companies: they are selling something that most people don't need so they rely on people who buy them on a whim.

There are definitely applications that are useful, even if they are firmly in the luxury territory. Smart lights, doorbells, thermostats, assistants, blinds/curtains and security cameras are all pretty useful.

I have a few of those but I've mostly avoided them due to vendor lock in. Stuff in houses lasts a long time. I don't want to have to replace my door lock every 5 years.

Some of the products are a bit difficult to actually integrate too. Smart locks are all "American security" level. Smart lights don't work well with existing switches. I don't actually know of any smart curtain openers so I'm making my own.

One day I think the issues will be resolved and it will become more common.

Re: The end of Insteon and why the smart home keeps faltering

#103
post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But any decent smart switch works as a normal switch by default, without any care or feeding. Sure, controlling them remotely and adding them to automation takes additional work, but that's stuff that is just impossible with the dumb switches, and not a requirement to control the light fixtures.

The problem with remotely controlled switches is that they can be (and will be) placed in very inconvenient places. So when the remote part breaks, one cannot just continue to use them because it can be difficult to reach them (like behind refrigerator that has to be moved to use the switch or on a wall in another room).

I've never had this problem. All of my remotely-controllable switches are just in spots that people would place normal switches, but they're additionally remotely controllable.

Re: The end of Insteon and why the smart home keeps faltering

#104
post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is DIY considered bad? I mean, aren't existing "dumb" electricals also DIY in the sense that you have to install it, wire it in, etc? I have a "DIY" setup in my current property with Shelly modules behind light switches and everything connected to Home Assistant. It's been rock-solid for a year now and the occasional maintenance I do (updates, etc) is more out of a hobby than anything (I could air-gap the entire…

The reason DIY is "bad" is the time investment that comes with it, and the fact that all good systems required a lot of bespoke work, which means there's a skill gap too. Home automation, when it works, is great. If you don't have the time & skill to do it yourself, the cost of having somebody do it well for you is prohibitive unless you're in a fairly high income demographic. And that's the problem with DIY - it's a…

And you might be able to DIY right now but once you've had one accident that reduces mobility or, let's say, gumption to tinker, all this can become a burden.

I have this image of the Father in Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance, harping on his friends not taking care of their BMW motorcycle, letting it heat too much and not checking on it at every stop, while he's watching his Japanese model like a hawk, looking at temperature, doing mechanics on the road and so on. He's quite flustered, and condescending, saying they're not comfortable with the technology and the technological world, that they could live with a leaky faucet and not care because they can't fix it themselves. He's calling them 'romantic' and even when saying he understands how they see the world, still comes of a bit 'this is a bad state of affairs'. I used to agree with him.

I'm a tinkerer, I love gadgets, I can handle imperfect, I'm not afraid to drive my e-cargo with finicky not-fully-working brakes and 'you need to use it just right' stuff instead of bringing them to the shop or doing the big repair. I can repair but I usually also understand enough to know it can wait. That's me. Same in the house, I manage, I repair, I workaround while waiting for the thing to really break (money is tight, etc) and can live with imperfect stuff and have patience when things break down.

Then my spouse broke her knee. I had to handle my 3yo twin girls alone. The house. Twice the chores. The triple workload, while still doing productive work and trying to handle the first lockdown... The disabled partner in need of help for everything, and every hour or two every night in need of ice or pain relief. Utterly tired, sleepwalking...

My tinkering life stopped right there. I need stuff to work even when the world is falling down, I'm dead tired. No firmware update in the middle of anything, no crash while bathing the kids, no fucking reboot during a wash cycle that I needed to finish and set to dry before going to sleep at 4am to wake up at 6. You need things that absolutely work 100% of the time, just in case you're not able anymore.

So, like one other commenter said: something augmenting basically working stuff is the bare minimum. Mechanical switch is the most robust, have it working even if the system is ripped out. Electromechanical switches under your hand and display on the dashboard, in cars and not the damn crashing 17inch flat screen. No fucking software between me and the essential life support stuff. Have fun over that but make it fall back on 'what we had before' without my intervention.

Re: The end of Insteon and why the smart home keeps faltering

#105
post #8

The reason these companies keep faltering is that they push cloud-based and/or locked in product ecosystems. Then they are either forced to a) operate on a pyramid scheme where new customers finance the ongoing costs of existing users or b) a subscription model that gives them a strong incentive to keep customers as locked into their ecosystem as possible. Either of these leave customers high and dry when the house o…

Central anything + smart home = miserable experience. If my router is having a sketchy connection I should never be blocked from turning my lights on, or have one random light in a scene fail to turn on. Someone needs to take the plunge and make the smart home a resilient mesh network that will work even in a zombie apocalypse.

Yet as long as mobile is THE channel consumer live with, there is no other real option but go with cloud. Last example is use your phone to unlock Tesla's car door, remember? lol

Re: The end of Insteon and why the smart home keeps faltering

#106
post #8

The reason these companies keep faltering is that they push cloud-based and/or locked in product ecosystems. Then they are either forced to a) operate on a pyramid scheme where new customers finance the ongoing costs of existing users or b) a subscription model that gives them a strong incentive to keep customers as locked into their ecosystem as possible. Either of these leave customers high and dry when the house o…

Cloud is inevitable when everybody wants to use mobile phone to control their home. Reminds me the Tesla car unlock from mobile phone incident.

However, cloud is not the problem, the control and lock in of the cloud is. The future will lie in personal cloud for everything. This again is the resurrection of centralization vs. decentralization of everything on internet, the original promise of internet.

Re: The end of Insteon and why the smart home keeps faltering

#107
My house was built in the 1980s and other than upgrades and repairs pretty much works as is. I don't have to pay a monthly subscription to switch on/off my lights. Other than repairs, the house will likely work for another 50 years without major upgrades, although the electricity network may have to be updated to accommodate charging electric cars. I haven't seen a a single smart home system that is going to last longer than a decade while remaining secure at the same time.

I am sure home will get smarter over time, however, it will be in areas where internet connectivity actually pays off, not fads like a internet connected fridge that messages you when it is empty.

Re: The end of Insteon and why the smart home keeps faltering

#109
post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> no equivalent for Insteon KeypadLinc there are a variety of HomeKit buttons that are sold as e.g. dimmers or multi-bulb, but in fact can trigger arbitrary homekit devices, scenes, automations, etc. i’m guessing these fall in the category you say “comes close”? an example of what i mean is “Philips Hue v2 Smart Dimmer Switch and Remote” which is actually 4 arbitrary device, scene, or automation buttons that magnetic…

For some context, here's one of my old keypads [1]: controlling outside lights, garage door (status plus control), and scene control (Welcome = several lights on the main floor; All off = very slow fade off of everything). The other one I really miss was in the kitchen and had "Bright", "Dim" and "Off" and controlled lights over the island + sink + under-cabinets + range-hood + some accent LED strips. Honestly I'm no…

Consider one of these: https://shelly.cloud/shelly-plus-i4/ - or alternatively, if you have a lighting circuit wired to that switch, any other of their modules that also double as a relay.

Re: The end of Insteon and why the smart home keeps faltering

#110
post #93
post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a big difference between wiring up a new outlet that'll likely last for decades without further effort and will very likely require an identical or near-identical process to replace even 30 years from now, and care and feeding of fully-local "smart home" networks & interfaces. Most plumbing or electrical work I do will last decades. If I move, the same skills will transfer perfectly to the plumbing and wiring…

My design Philosophy around my smart home things has been a model of enhancement. Meaning everything has to work with out the "smart" part, the smarts just add convenience, and and wow factor, but I should not HAVE to use the smart controller to turn on a light, I may need the controller to dim it, or change the color but it should turn on with out it. Alot of smart Switches will work (turn the circuit on and off) wi…

This is like progressive enhancement: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_enhancement
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