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The case for LineageOS and the PinePhone

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Re: The case for LineageOS and the PinePhone

#101

I like the idea of a more open phone a lot but dispute the "Smartphones are shit" premise. I think modern smart phones are an unbelievably awesome value. Battery, display, wireless and processing power have advanced at such an unbelievable rate that we have something in our pockets that far exceeds predictions of 20, 30, 100 years ago. The problem is that we don't want to pay what it really costs to have such a great…

Yet my battery life mysteriously cut to 1/4th its old value (half a day, down from 2 days) after a recent Apple update. That is pretty “shit” if you ask me. It’s like a malware attack that is trying to extort $1200 out of me

Re: The case for LineageOS and the PinePhone

#102
post #97

I like the idea of a more open phone a lot but dispute the "Smartphones are shit" premise. I think modern smart phones are an unbelievably awesome value. Battery, display, wireless and processing power have advanced at such an unbelievable rate that we have something in our pockets that far exceeds predictions of 20, 30, 100 years ago. The problem is that we don't want to pay what it really costs to have such a great…

As someone who had a few pre-smartphone PDAs: Smartphones absolutely are high powered shit. On paper they're amazing but the ecosystem limits you to scrolling instagram and only a handfull of accepted IMs (iOS struggles with XMPP and IRC for example, something even my hacked DS could do fine with 4MB of ram and a 60Mhz ARM9.) Just editing fucking textfiles and copying it back to a normal PC (that isn't a mac) is a re…

> Just editing fucking textfiles and copying it back to a normal PC (that isn't a mac) is a real bitch. Especially if you don't have an internet connection. It's almost as bad as a ti84+ honestly.

If you're on Android, I suggest looking at F-Droid; there exist decent text editors and file managers, and failing all else Termux manages to drag a decent amount of sanity in.

Re: The case for LineageOS and the PinePhone

#103

I like the idea of a more open phone a lot but dispute the "Smartphones are shit" premise. I think modern smart phones are an unbelievably awesome value. Battery, display, wireless and processing power have advanced at such an unbelievable rate that we have something in our pockets that far exceeds predictions of 20, 30, 100 years ago. The problem is that we don't want to pay what it really costs to have such a great…

> I think modern smart phones are an unbelievably awesome value.

Smartphones are mostly toys, dark pattern traps for procrastination. They are not productive tools, because you're always going to be a fraction as productive as you are on a full-size screen and keyboard. The only exception is maybe photography, since the sensors are finally catching up to entry-level DSLRs (optics still aren't, and probably never will)

Even most laptop users I know make use of several external monitors and a keyboard and a dock for other accessories.

> The problem is that we don't want to pay

Not sure what you mean. Are you suggesting that end-consumers should be willing to pay developers to not work at corporations and instead focus on creating some kind of open-source dark-pattern free paradise ecosystem for smartphones and other portables?

Re: The case for LineageOS and the PinePhone

#104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are purposely taking the well known and understood term "general purpose computing device" out of context and using it as a polemical statement to push an agenda.

"general purpose" for me means I can set the program counter somewhere and run my code in general the term vaguely means 'this computer can perform many different tasks' but can an iphone perform a task you want, but apple did not allow?

Yes, you can run your own code on an iPhone.

You can't run arbitrary binaries, but you can run whatever code you want.

Re: The case for LineageOS and the PinePhone

#105
post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who had a few pre-smartphone PDAs: Smartphones absolutely are high powered shit. On paper they're amazing but the ecosystem limits you to scrolling instagram and only a handfull of accepted IMs (iOS struggles with XMPP and IRC for example, something even my hacked DS could do fine with 4MB of ram and a 60Mhz ARM9.) Just editing fucking textfiles and copying it back to a normal PC (that isn't a mac) is a re…

> Just editing fucking textfiles and copying it back to a normal PC (that isn't a mac) is a real bitch. Especially if you don't have an internet connection. It's almost as bad as a ti84+ honestly. If you're on Android, I suggest looking at F-Droid; there exist decent text editors and file managers, and failing all else Termux manages to drag a decent amount of sanity in.

I had an Android. Every update made Termux less and less capable (IIRC exec is very complex or impossible in a recent one.) Now I have a Pinephone running a normal X11 DE and I don't have to tolerate an ounce of stupidity. Sure there are legitimate good faith defects in the software but nothing is intentionally broken just for the sake of it.

ssh just works (the phone shipped with it preinstalled)

vim just works

scp just works

All my X11 apps just work

All the scripts and little tools I've built up over the years just work (no fighting with namespaces when you switch to root or other weird Android nonsense.)

All my dev tools just work (and you might say "well why would I ever want that on a phone? Because when you find a bug in the OS or an app and you're sitting on transit you can fix it right then and there. No making mental notes, no filling out issues, just slow continuous improvement. Something these mobile OSes will never have.)

Desktop Firefox just works (even without touchscreen mode it's usable. With xinput2 enabled it has nice gesture support.)

Want something to run in the background? Just open an Xterm window, run it, and minimize it. Want it to start on boot? Add it to the default runlevel or your X session just like you would on any other computer.

There's absolutely no reason for any of the mobile nonsense (there arguably never was) other than money for the mobile OS vendors.

Re: The case for LineageOS and the PinePhone

#106
post #3

tell ya what i really wanna see from pinephone: AGPS lockdown. Currently ive learned from HN there are numerous 3GPP protocols that provide direct, clandestine monitoring of the GPS location of the phone. the feature lives unchallenged in the firmware, so if you can give me a phone that cannot report its GPS data to the carrier without my knowledge, id be ever grateful.

I don't understand what is it you call "AGPS lockdown"

3GPP is usually used in the context of AGPS to help GPS get a lock, by using the ID of the tower your 3GPP UE is connected to. There is one such tower, and there is simply no way to hide it. It is a technical requirement for your carrier to have an approximate location of your equipment. Even if they wished they didn't have it, they would still need it.

A phone doesn't have its GPS turned on permanently, because it eats a lot of battery, and sure some carriers and some OEMs have some backdoors (Sprint last I've seen) to request a GPS position, though AFAIK it can't be enabled in most cases. Is this what you're talking about? As far as I know, taking a "stupid" modem (Say an exynos one), and putting a custom ROM should make you safe from it, because from what I've seen, those backdoors are done in Samsung Android framework

If your question is about E911 (which is lockdown to... well... 911 calls), can't say that I know much about it, but I think what I said on the previous point still applies. On a dumb modem

BTW, PinePhone's modem being a Qualcomm, it is very "smart", and does a lot of things behind Application Processor's back. A Mediatek, or better an Exynos modem is much better to that regard, and would be preferable. (but there is no pinephone on non-qc modem)

Re: The case for LineageOS and the PinePhone

#107
"Don't smartphones... kind of suck?"

Yes, they absolutely do.

"How many times have you had to replace a phone in the past 10 years? Do you have a drawer of random crap with a growing pile of phones,"

Answer: 'many' in both instances.

Where possible, I root my phones and install LineageOS or other similar 'open' O/S. In instances where there's no LineageOS available or where LineageOS doesn't provide a full implementation of the phone's original software (in that some essential feature that I require is either missing or doesn't work properly under LineageOS) then I still root the original OEM's O/S and then deGgoogle it the best I can—that is, nuke all of Google's apps as well as all of the OEM's junkware apps then install GApps as well as various alternatives to Google's software, etc. including a firewall to stop certain apps getting access to ads.

I always install two essential apps, F-Droid (store) and Aurora Store which spoofs access to Google's Playstore.

Note: Be very careful in how you logon to Google's sites (that is if you still use them, Gmail for instance (luckily, I don't). Failure to take great care will mean that you'll be deemed by Google of having violated its terms of service and your account will be revoked or suspended!!

Most of you who will be reading this already know all these details, so the most significant thing I have to say is that I NO longer advocate to my friends that they ought to root their phones. I even include my many technical friends who could easily root their phones if they wanted to do so in this rule—because it's just not worth the risk of aliening them when things stuff up (as they often do) when phones are rooted.

Diehards like me have either no problems or they're problems I can easily live with. The trouble, however, is that the Google ecosystem is so addictive and all embracing that even many savvy techies find that they cannot live without certain features, or alternatively, they're so engrossed in using their apps that they haven't the time to even look for alternatives let alone take sufficient effort to evaluate them properly.

In my opinion, it's this utterly strong grip that Google has on its users that's the key issue—and major problem! Whilst rooting and LineageOS are great for the likes of you and me, they're not suitable for most people (as terrible as that me be). Period!

I'm of the strong opinion the only way around this dilemma is for some big Maverick manufacturer to manufacture a high performance, super-easy-to-use 'Fairphone'-like 'clone' that has even better performance than the current crop of non-Google alternatives—and it should also be even easier to use than current phones. Only then will there be sufficient momentum from sales to see other manufactures take up the challenge—and it's only then when we will end up with effective competition.

At present however, I'd not even give my wish a snowball's chance!

Moreover, frankly, I'm concerned that the current lot of manufactures that make Google alternatives is just too small to make any appreciable difference. That said, I wish them well—and few I'd reckon would be happier than me if my assessment turned out to be totally wrong.

Re: The case for LineageOS and the PinePhone

#108
post #58

> Don't smartphones... kind of suck? How many times have you had to replace a phone in the past 10 years? Do you have a drawer of random crap with a growing pile of phones? I simply cannot relate with this hook. > Don't smartphones... kind of suck? No, smartphones are kinda magical. They take better snapshots than my first DSLR, they play games at higher fidelity than my first gaming PC, and they’re general purpose c…

> How many times have you had to replace a phone in the past 10 years? Twice. Me too! And I'm a mobile engineer! My partner only recently updated their iPhone 6s, and I upgrade when the need arises, not when there's something new and shinny on the market.

Running Lineage on AT&T has drastically reduced the number of compatible phones due to the hard requirement for VoLTE (voice over LTE) on a small set of authorized phones.

I had just upgraded my OnePlus 3 to a 5 when this was announced, so I purchased a Pixel 3a XL by the deadline (which fortunately has VoLTE in AOSP).

I moved my phone to Verizon for a few reasons, but Lineage struggles with VoLTE and this is a big reason for old phones in a drawer.

Re: The case for LineageOS and the PinePhone

#110
post #58

> Don't smartphones... kind of suck? How many times have you had to replace a phone in the past 10 years? Do you have a drawer of random crap with a growing pile of phones? I simply cannot relate with this hook. > Don't smartphones... kind of suck? No, smartphones are kinda magical. They take better snapshots than my first DSLR, they play games at higher fidelity than my first gaming PC, and they’re general purpose c…

You completely lost me at "they're general purpose computing devices."

This is not even remotely a reasonable definition of today's smartphones.

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