What does “shitty job” mean in the low-skill, low-pay world? • Hacker News Board

Re: What does “shitty job” mean in the low-skill, low-pay world?

#101

Post by ianai » Sun, Apr 17, 2022, 5:02 PM UTC

throw1234651234 wrote: post #44

alexfromapex wrote: post #31

I think this article starts to touch on a topic area I don't hear much about but am extremely frustrated by: how modern work for a lot of jobs has become de facto indentured servitude. In the "When They Know They've Got You" section, they mention the real challenges of not being able to obtain a lawyer if things truly aren't fair. The average worker can't afford anything without taking on debt. Insurance is a scam in…

This is the best post in this thread. This is all very much true. One more thing that most Americans don't admit is that people mostly work jobs they have started out in. When I was in shitty jobs, people started out and stayed there. As I move up, I notice that people also started out and stayed there. Anecdotally, the US has much less mobility than what is commonly believed. Anyway, I went off topic - don't want to…

What irks me in a position is when I find out the people in higher paying, supposedly more demanding positions are doing less work with less effort/demand. Think like the one hourly with many salary supervisors or similar.

Re: What does “shitty job” mean in the low-skill, low-pay world?

#102

Post by abxytg » Sun, Apr 17, 2022, 5:02 PM UTC

mrjangles wrote: post #83

alexfromapex wrote: post #31

I think this article starts to touch on a topic area I don't hear much about but am extremely frustrated by: how modern work for a lot of jobs has become de facto indentured servitude. In the "When They Know They've Got You" section, they mention the real challenges of not being able to obtain a lawyer if things truly aren't fair. The average worker can't afford anything without taking on debt. Insurance is a scam in…

>how modern work for a lot of jobs has become de facto indentured servitude...The average worker can't afford anything without taking on debt. For people from other countries wondering about the veracity of these claims, let's take an example: The typical shitty job everyone on here complains about is working at an amazon warehouse. This is a job people with no skills take on. They pay 15 USD an hour. In other curren…

Cynically untrue. Amazon is not even close to bottom of the barrel. And it's clear you haven't paid market rent in a major city since you bought that starter home back in the 90s - 42k is a joke when your rent is close to $2500 and you get no benefits.

Re: What does “shitty job” mean in the low-skill, low-pay world?

#103

Post by nebula8804 » Sun, Apr 17, 2022, 5:03 PM UTC

silexia wrote: post #82

throw1234651234 wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the best post in this thread. This is all very much true. One more thing that most Americans don't admit is that people mostly work jobs they have started out in. When I was in shitty jobs, people started out and stayed there. As I move up, I notice that people also started out and stayed there. Anecdotally, the US has much less mobility than what is commonly believed. Anyway, I went off topic - don't want to…

The solution here is to open up the free markets again. This means: -Right to repair -Abolish the patent system and non competes -Drop the IRS and let the government simply print money it needs... This eliminates all tax loopholes and special treatment. Perfectly fair wealth tax.

They will find a way around those laws. I think the end state of the US was described perfectly in Ray Dalio's "Principles for Dealing with the Changing World Order by Ray Dalio" video: Namely, the elite will grab as much capital as they can and when the people finally wrestle back control, all that wealth will fly out of the country as it is collapsing. This is probably how they are operating.

[1]:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xguam0TKMw8&t=2147s

Re: What does “shitty job” mean in the low-skill, low-pay world?

#104

Post by xwdv » Sun, Apr 17, 2022, 5:03 PM UTC

permalac wrote: post #46

woodruffw wrote: post #30

This was a great read. I think the true value of money is one of HN's biggest bubbles: the average person on here (but not all of us!) jumped right from their undergraduate career to making a six-figure salary in a city with lavish public amenities (by American standards). It's very easy to forget that the average American salary is less than half of that, and even that hides the number of people living well below th…

Sometimes I forget that those 6 figure jobs require one living in US, then I remember and I'm a bit happier with my not 6 figures job.

This is obviously a dig at quality of life in the US.

However, if you must choose between quality of life or higher salary, choose higher salary. Quality of life isn’t a liquid asset.

Also, in the United States your life is substantially better the more money you have.

Re: What does “shitty job” mean in the low-skill, low-pay world?

#105

Post by watwut » Sun, Apr 17, 2022, 5:03 PM UTC

ip26 wrote: post #90

giantg2 wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the case of LEOs or prosecutors, I think many give up the search for truth and give in to the us-vs-them mentality. The cognitive dissonance and pressure of group dynamics make it almost a certainty. There is huge power in law enforcement and prosecutorial discretion. Yes, some parts of the job have to be strict for safety purposes. There are many other parts that don't. I've had prosecutors and police know that o…

Defense & prosecution aren't on a search for truth, they are on a search to make the best possible case for & against you, respectively. That's their role in the system. Law enforcement (officers, investigators) I would hope to be on the search for truth.

Purely theoretically, prosecution should search truth. By law, they should follow exculpatory evidence too, give all evidence to defense and few other rules. Not saying they do, in practice they are rewarded for breaking those rules.

But, in theory it should be different.

Re: What does “shitty job” mean in the low-skill, low-pay world?

#106

Post by [deleted] » Sun, Apr 17, 2022, 5:04 PM UTC

mrjangles wrote: post #83

alexfromapex wrote: post #31

I think this article starts to touch on a topic area I don't hear much about but am extremely frustrated by: how modern work for a lot of jobs has become de facto indentured servitude. In the "When They Know They've Got You" section, they mention the real challenges of not being able to obtain a lawyer if things truly aren't fair. The average worker can't afford anything without taking on debt. Insurance is a scam in…

>how modern work for a lot of jobs has become de facto indentured servitude...The average worker can't afford anything without taking on debt. For people from other countries wondering about the veracity of these claims, let's take an example: The typical shitty job everyone on here complains about is working at an amazon warehouse. This is a job people with no skills take on. They pay 15 USD an hour. In other curren…

[deleted]

Re: What does “shitty job” mean in the low-skill, low-pay world?

#107

Post by mrjangles » Sun, Apr 17, 2022, 5:05 PM UTC

pphysch wrote: post #93

mrjangles wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>how modern work for a lot of jobs has become de facto indentured servitude...The average worker can't afford anything without taking on debt. For people from other countries wondering about the veracity of these claims, let's take an example: The typical shitty job everyone on here complains about is working at an amazon warehouse. This is a job people with no skills take on. They pay 15 USD an hour. In other curren…

US and more socialist EU countries may have similar CPIs, but when we get to talking about education, rent, healthcare, transportation, etc the differences can be stark. Yes, people in US earn more and get taxed less. But they also spend a lot, lot more on necessities via shadowy cost structures like student loans and insurance and >$1,000 ambulance rides.

This is often measured by researchers. It is called a "cost of living" calculation, and every one of these that I have seen indicates that this isn't the case.

Re: What does “shitty job” mean in the low-skill, low-pay world?

#108

Post by Avshalom » Sun, Apr 17, 2022, 5:05 PM UTC

mrjangles wrote: post #83

alexfromapex wrote: post #31

I think this article starts to touch on a topic area I don't hear much about but am extremely frustrated by: how modern work for a lot of jobs has become de facto indentured servitude. In the "When They Know They've Got You" section, they mention the real challenges of not being able to obtain a lawyer if things truly aren't fair. The average worker can't afford anything without taking on debt. Insurance is a scam in…

>how modern work for a lot of jobs has become de facto indentured servitude...The average worker can't afford anything without taking on debt. For people from other countries wondering about the veracity of these claims, let's take an example: The typical shitty job everyone on here complains about is working at an amazon warehouse. This is a job people with no skills take on. They pay 15 USD an hour. In other curren…

42k is just above minimum wage in Australia and 15 an hour is over double the minimum wage in 20 states in the US.

Re: What does “shitty job” mean in the low-skill, low-pay world?

#109

Post by watwut » Sun, Apr 17, 2022, 5:06 PM UTC

johnqian wrote: post #87

TrackerFF wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As far as low-skill, high-pay goes, dockworkers unloading ships is up there with meatgrinder jobs. Your team gets paid for each lb / kg unloaded off the ship, and that sum is divided equally over each team member. So the faster and more ships your team can unload, the more you're paid. That's the incentive. I once got paid almost $1000, in just one day - but that day was 20 hours long, and you're pretty much beat to…

That actually sounds like a great way to workout while getting paid! Do they accept short/temporary/irregular stints?

Great workout ends when biologically convenient and leads to less damage on body. These jobs fairly often destroy peoples bodies.

Re: What does “shitty job” mean in the low-skill, low-pay world?

#110

Post by pinko » Sun, Apr 17, 2022, 5:06 PM UTC

ResNet wrote: post #76

TrackerFF wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As far as low-skill, high-pay goes, dockworkers unloading ships is up there with meatgrinder jobs. Your team gets paid for each lb / kg unloaded off the ship, and that sum is divided equally over each team member. So the faster and more ships your team can unload, the more you're paid. That's the incentive. I once got paid almost $1000, in just one day - but that day was 20 hours long, and you're pretty much beat to…

> I once got paid almost $1000, in just one day This is surprisingly high in that I would have assumed it would be far more cost-effective for the company to improve automation here and bring in more equipment to assist — intuitively, even if such equipment would be expensive, it couldn't be more expensive than the labor costs. What industry was this?

I think the OP already said: dockworkers unloading ships -- that's the industry.

And to the extent that the cargo isn't containerized (sometimes it is, sometimes it isn't), automation is harder than it sounds here: sequencing, unstacking, moving, and re-stacking irregularly-shaped, imbalanced, fragile, and dissimilarly-packaged objects requires lots of experience and judgement or things go awry very fast, and one mistake can cost a ton of time to deal with when something falls over, gets punctured, or gets in the way.

This is also true of movers (as in house movers). It's harder than it looks, at least to do well -- many cheaper companies write contracts such that they can screw up and customers have no recourse, which changes the economics a bit -- but the first-rate movers are expensive for a reason. Unless you're incredibly careful (which often implies going more slowly), bodies get wrecked and objects get broken.

As an aside, one proxy for a first-rate moving company is them having front-line employees who have been on the job for 5+ years. It's basically impossible for companies that cut corners because no one survives that long. Firms like Gentle Giant out of Boston (I have no stake in the company, I just know them well)) have a stable of long-term employees, many of them athletes, because they're incentivized to do a good job while not hurting themselves. And they're expensive (but not necessarily more expensive than cut-rate firms if you factor in the risk of damage, and/or the likelihood of being fairly reimbursed if something is damaged).