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Overengineered Japanese Mechanical Pencils [video]

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Re: Overengineered Japanese Mechanical Pencils [video]

#101

Post by JasonFruit »

paulryanrogers wrote: post #97
JasonFruit wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is that any more elitist than judging the resume by grammar or by the prestige of the schools, former employers, and references it lists? Hiring is a situation where you're literally looking for the best : it's by definition elitist.

Unless the job is handwritting then it is unnecessary gatekeeping. And strikes me as elitist if they're trying to filter out lower classes. Just because other practices are also elitist doesn't make this virtuous.

My point in bringing up the general elitism of hiring is this: people judge reliability, capability, and dedication by all sorts of clues, though the specifics differ by culture. I don't really see a problem with handwriting being one. A dedicated, capable, responsible person will, in a culture where good handwriting is considered a sine qua non of employability, develop excellent handwriting, because they want to be successful and are willing to work at it. In Elizabethan England, a young man wasn't fit for society unless he could join in a song and improvise harmony, and you can bet that the most dedicated, ambitious young men made sure they could do so. Neither is more arbitrary than some of the criteria the American hiring process relies on.

Re: Overengineered Japanese Mechanical Pencils [video]

#102

Post by paulryanrogers »

JasonFruit wrote: post #101
paulryanrogers wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unless the job is handwritting then it is unnecessary gatekeeping. And strikes me as elitist if they're trying to filter out lower classes. Just because other practices are also elitist doesn't make this virtuous.

My point in bringing up the general elitism of hiring is this: people judge reliability, capability, and dedication by all sorts of clues, though the specifics differ by culture. I don't really see a problem with handwriting being one. A dedicated, capable, responsible person will, in a culture where good handwriting is considered a sine qua non of employability, develop excellent handwriting, because they want to be…

Many jobs don't benefit from these arbitrary signals. And people are born with diverse capabilities. So digging for weak signals causes systemic harm to whole groups of people. Folks who may be more than qualified for the work in question.

Let's learn from mistakes of the past instead of repeating them out of laziness or tribalism.

Re: Overengineered Japanese Mechanical Pencils [video]

#103

Post by ctvo »

dzhiurgis wrote: post #87
NalNezumi wrote: post #66

It might feel "overengineered" to people outside the Japanese society, but it actually just solves common issues here and it's not overengineering. The rotating mechanism is the easiest to see this. First, Kanji signs are more detailed than the alphabet and uneven lines can make it really ugly/hard to read. Same issue with breaking lead, causes ugliness. Second, traditionally handwriting in Japan have been seen as a…

> resumes have to be handwritten. Sounds incredibly easy to cheat, but also not something Japanese would do, would they?

Many aspects of resumes are easy to cheat.

List an undergrad at a more prestigious university while your graduate degree is accurate. There’s a high chance outside of government few will verify. Hell, lie about it all. I know for a fact my last big tech employer never verified education.

My point is finding edge cases where a person with a certain set of antisocial traits will abuse the system doesn’t mean there isn’t value in it. The majority of people won’t take the risk to their professional reputation and will be honest.

Re: Overengineered Japanese Mechanical Pencils [video]

#104

Post by Psyladine »

dzhiurgis wrote: post #87
NalNezumi wrote: post #66

It might feel "overengineered" to people outside the Japanese society, but it actually just solves common issues here and it's not overengineering. The rotating mechanism is the easiest to see this. First, Kanji signs are more detailed than the alphabet and uneven lines can make it really ugly/hard to read. Same issue with breaking lead, causes ugliness. Second, traditionally handwriting in Japan have been seen as a…

> resumes have to be handwritten. Sounds incredibly easy to cheat, but also not something Japanese would do, would they?

What makes you say that? Their attitudes towards concepts like cheating, deception and outcome over process behind the social wall of politeness and diligence might surprise you.

Re: Overengineered Japanese Mechanical Pencils [video]

#105

Post by tragomaskhalos »

matthalvorson wrote: post #60

When I was younger I lived in Japan for a year when my dad was stationed on a navy ship in Yokosuka. Most people I can remember then using "mechanical pencils" had those where there was a stack of maybe 8 pencil tips (lead + plastic casing around it) going down the hollow plastic body, and when the piece broke or wore down too far, you would remove it from the stack and push it back in the top of the pencil to make t…

Can strongly identify with this - at school I had a very artistic friend who introduced me to Rotring pens - crazily expensive but beautiful writing implements. I still recall making crystal clear interlinear notes in textbooks using the smallest nib I possessed (0.2 mm iirc) and there was a real aesthetic joy in this, heightened by the distinctive smell of the ink they used.

Re: Overengineered Japanese Mechanical Pencils [video]

#106

Post by tristor »

I love Jet Pens. I actually found my way into it from the pen side, rather than the pencil side, getting very into Japanese made inks and fountain pens (and nib replacements for non-Japanese fountain pens). My first entry into this world was a quaint little stationary store in Kansas City where I found and bought a pen specifically designed to fit in the spine of a checkbook (this dates me, I'm sure). After that I began to realize the world of pens was larger than cheap bics and the occasional logoed click pen given away for free at a conference.

Since that experience I've become a devoted fan of Zebra's line of pens, and I always carry an F-301 or F-402 in my pocket, have huge stacks of them in my pen drawer, and discovered the entire world of Japanese stationary. I now buy almost all of my stationary products from Japanese companies, except ironically mechanical pencils. My favorite mechanical pencil is the Rotring 800, which is made by a German company. For a fit of double-irony, they no longer manufacturer them in Germany and they are instead made in Japan under license by Holbein (who also makes amazing pencils for art use).

Between Jet Pens and Goulet Pens, I've spent a small fortune on stationary products over the years, but it creates a visceral experience that can't be replicated electronically (I've tried). My writing has improved, I take more notes, I write with more eloquence, and I've found using good stationary and writing well is so rare now that it becomes a nice symbolic touch that gets remembered.

Re: Overengineered Japanese Mechanical Pencils [video]

#107

Post by quesera »

paulryanrogers wrote: post #96
TheCowboy wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Might be better to think of 'regular' mechanical pencils as under-engineered, where the flaws are compensated for by using a lot lead and clicking a lot. I've used the Uni Kuru Toga for years and have converted a few people to it. I don't think it's necessary for everyone, but it's just a great pencil. It's also worth investing in better than the cheapest lead you can find as well. I prefer lead that is a little soft…

Do they really use lead? Or is it graphite?

"Lead" pencils have never used actual lead (Pb). They have always been graphite, and they've always been called "lead".

Today, lead pencils contain a mix of graphite and clay, in ratios chosen to produce varying "darkness" of the marks. Higher graphite content is softer, darker, and wears more quickly.

The traditional classification scale runs from 9B ('B' for blackness) down to 1B, HB, F (for fine, or firm, but not meaningful really), 1H, and up to 9H ('H' for hardness). HB is the US-typical "#2 pencil".

Re: Overengineered Japanese Mechanical Pencils [video]

#108

Post by tough »

NalNezumi wrote: post #66

It might feel "overengineered" to people outside the Japanese society, but it actually just solves common issues here and it's not overengineering. The rotating mechanism is the easiest to see this. First, Kanji signs are more detailed than the alphabet and uneven lines can make it really ugly/hard to read. Same issue with breaking lead, causes ugliness. Second, traditionally handwriting in Japan have been seen as a…

Damn it have horrible handwriting but can type real fast... The times are'a changin.

Cool fact to know though. Makes sense like being 'read' is what is valued more in the west.

Re: Overengineered Japanese Mechanical Pencils [video]

#109

Post by perihelions »

quesera wrote: post #107
paulryanrogers wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do they really use lead? Or is it graphite?

"Lead" pencils have never used actual lead (Pb). They have always been graphite, and they've always been called "lead". Today, lead pencils contain a mix of graphite and clay, in ratios chosen to produce varying "darkness" of the marks. Higher graphite content is softer, darker, and wears more quickly. The traditional classification scale runs from 9B ('B' for blackness) down to 1B, HB, F (for fine, or firm, but not…

Some early writing implements actually did use lead (Pb). Here's something da Vinci sketched in leadpoint (in part):

https://www.britishmuseum.org/collection/object/P_1860-0616-...

Really looks like modern (graphite) pencil, doesn't it? (Unless I've misunderstood which parts are lead and which aren't -- but I think I've interpreted it right).

edit: Here's a technical article about how you can positively identify lead (Pb) in medieval drawings, and distinguish it from silver and other metals. (In case anyone was still skeptical). They show a variety of other examples.

https://sci-hub.se/10.1179/sic.2009.54.2.106 ("A Note on the Examination of Silverpoint Drawings by Near-Infrared Reflectography")

Re: Overengineered Japanese Mechanical Pencils [video]

#110

Post by psmirnov »

rramadass wrote: post #62
matthalvorson wrote: post #60

When I was younger I lived in Japan for a year when my dad was stationed on a navy ship in Yokosuka. Most people I can remember then using "mechanical pencils" had those where there was a stack of maybe 8 pencil tips (lead + plastic casing around it) going down the hollow plastic body, and when the piece broke or wore down too far, you would remove it from the stack and push it back in the top of the pencil to make t…

Ah, a fellow "Tombow Zoom 505" enthusiast! In case you didn't know already, they have expanded the lineup somewhat. There is now a 0.9mm Mechanical pencil and a Ballpoint pen over and above the original 0.5mm Mechanical Pencils and Rollerballs[1]. There is also a new "Multifunction pen" (Black+Red+0.5mm) in three colours. It is slightly longer than the Mechanical pencil[2]. Finally, the Pentel Kerry makes a very good…

The Kerry is a must have for me; it got me through my maths degree. The simplicity of being able to close the cap and toss it in a jacket or jean pocket without worrying about pencil marks meant I always had a pencil on me and could write down things as soon as they clicked in my head.
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