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Germany has seized control of Gazprom Germania

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Re: Germany has seized control of Gazprom Germania

#101
post #60
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, they got top minds on this. Top. Minds. Nuclear canceled by the Green Party and pre-March went all in on Russian oil and gas.

> Nuclear canceled by the Green Party .. after Fukushima. Trading one tail risk for another. (Germany has oddly lagged in deploying renewables, though. Possibly due to lack of offshore sites, meaning that wind farms have to be deployed against the efforts of NIMBYs)

"After Fukushima" is the funniest part of this. Baltic and North seas are well known from their gigantic tsunami waves.

Re: Germany has seized control of Gazprom Germania

#102
post #51
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, they got top minds on this. Top. Minds. Nuclear canceled by the Green Party and pre-March went all in on Russian oil and gas.

Sometimes I wonder if the Greens are actually funded by petrol companies because everything they do seems to benefit them in the end. In Switzerland the Greens are trying to be as dumb as the German ones.

For Germany as a whole I cannot speak, but it is an extremely common thing, yes, whether they know it or not.

* Greenpeace Germany has a gas division. They've now split it off and officially only own 5 shares (while being headquartered in the exact same building, by the exact same Greenpeace members): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_Planet_Energy

* Companies like Total have made use of their enormous war chest to take control of multiple organisations that push wind & solar power (https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2015/jan/22/fossil-f...), knowing full well it cannot cover all of our energy needs and knowing they will be here to sell natural gas, continuing the use of fossil fuels.

* Anti nuclear organizations are very often bankrolled by large oil lobbies (https://www.forbes.com/sites/kensilverstein/2016/07/13/are-f..., https://environmentalprogress.org/the-war-on-nuclear), once again, pushing to get nuclear replaced with natural gas.

Re: Germany has seized control of Gazprom Germania

#103
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Soviet Union was a reliable energy supplier to (West) Germany even at the height of the Cold War. Ostpolitik was the dominant mode of thinking across party lines. The West has never had any qualms about buying oil and gas from the worst regimes in the world. This outrage over buying from Russia while turning a blind eye to Arab monarchies seems rather perfomative.

> outrage over buying from Russia while turning a blind eye to Arab monarchies seems rather perfomative The Arab monarchies largely keep their messes in their own backyards. When there has been leakage, it has been limited. Russia rolling tanks into Europe is so harebrained it creates a new category of security risk we haven’t had close to home in a while: that of a madman.

> creates a new category of security risk we haven’t had close to home in a while

And Europe is reacting to it appropriately.

My point was that it's ultimately about geopolitics, not the feigned morality the GP was alluding to.

Re: Germany has seized control of Gazprom Germania

#104
post #60
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, they got top minds on this. Top. Minds. Nuclear canceled by the Green Party and pre-March went all in on Russian oil and gas.

> Nuclear canceled by the Green Party .. after Fukushima. Trading one tail risk for another. (Germany has oddly lagged in deploying renewables, though. Possibly due to lack of offshore sites, meaning that wind farms have to be deployed against the efforts of NIMBYs)

> .. after Fukushima. Trading one tail risk for another.

We don't stop flying after planes get into an accident. We evaluate and improve our designs and controls

But with nuclear with go with knee-jerk reaction for some reason

Re: Germany has seized control of Gazprom Germania

#105

This doesn't make sense to me. Can i get an explanation? The German state seized a local German branch of the Russian Gazprom company. In order to secure its energy supplies... which come from Russia. Are they in essence capturing some reserves?

Gazprom attenpted to change owners and default the company. In that case the gas contracts would have been void including its negotiated prices (under currebt market value) and the currency in euro instead of rubbels.

Re: Germany has seized control of Gazprom Germania

#106
post #10

It's nice to see Germany start working towards energy independence. I think it's a crucial factor for both national security and a faster migration to more environmentally friendly energy sources.

Where “energy independence” means that Germany becomes dependent on much more expensive LGN from the US. This may still be better than what Germany has now but it’s not independence.

Re: Germany has seized control of Gazprom Germania

#107
post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That company owned pipelines and storage tanks within Germany, thus controls the flow of gas after reaching Germany.

To expand on this: much of the distribution infrastructure within Germany is owned by Gazprom. For example, there's a very large natural gas storage capacity within Germany, but a significant portion of that is owned by, you guessed it, Gazprom. There's broad consensus that, if all of the storage infrastructure were topped up, Germany would be able to make it through _next_ winter reasonably well, even if Russia stop…

> It's also worth pointing out that there's been some evidence suggesting that, in the weeks and months leading up to the Russian invasion of the Ukraine, the "fill level" of the Russian-owned storage infrastructure within Germany was decreased, which would both be a way for Russia to attempt to leverage gas delivery against sanctions (in other words, blackmail), as well as yet another strong indication that the invasion was a deliberate Russian aggression planned well in advance.

It's a bit more complex than that. Following the liberalization of the gas market, "discount providers" appeared who simply bought on the spot market because that is usually drastically cheaper than long-term contracts, and also the large utilities shifted parts of their purchase to spot market contracts for the same reason. For many years this worked just fine from an outside POV, and the margins on the retail gas price that the utilities made were usually large enough to account for short-term supply price hikes without having to raise new capital or retail prices. All seemed to be well.

Last year, people noticed that Gazprom's storage facilities were unusually low. Gazprom of course denied any wrongdoing, they claimed they are fulfilling their contractual obligations and that's it. Which is objectively true and as a result, no regulatory agency had any legal authority to step in.

And now, with the invasion ongoing (and for a few months prior), Gazprom still kept their long-term contracts but unlike all the prior times did not supply much on the spot market - which led to the well observed price hikes and utilities going bankrupt or out of business because their "old" strategy of simply buying on the spot market didn't work out.

The responsibility for the current situation rests to a large part on the utilities who forewent resilience (in form of more expensive long running contracts) in favor of short term profits. We dug our own and the Ukrainian's graves at the same time.

Re: Germany has seized control of Gazprom Germania

#108
post #10

It's nice to see Germany start working towards energy independence. I think it's a crucial factor for both national security and a faster migration to more environmentally friendly energy sources.

Start? They have been spending ~$30 billions a year on green energy subsidies for the last 20 years, and a little less than double that for the total energy subsidies. It should be well over a trillion dollars in tax money going into the energy sector this century, which is by far more than any other country in EU.

The energy sector get almost as much subsidies as the total funding of the Germany military, 1.5% vs 2% of BNP.

It would be interesting to know how much more tax money is needed for an independent and environmentally friendly energy grid if they just continue as they done in the past.

Re: Germany has seized control of Gazprom Germania

#109
post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Angela Merkel did not want to close the plants, but the public opinion forced her hand. The people wanted this.

perhaps she didn't properly explain that Putin can and will shut off the supply... or maybe she herself couldn't believe that he's that much of a thug.

OP's "the people wanted this" hints at a complicated background. Getting out of nuclear is a long-running social movement in Germany, with Chernobyl as a decisive event. There's a caste of of politicians and private individuals for whom this is generation-defining/a founding myth. It's the kind of thing that arthouse movies (e.g. "Das Ding am Deich") and social documentaries are made about. Discussing, for example, the particular issues of adolescents raised by parents who used to live at the protests parties in the 80s.

It bubbled over with Fukushima, the a roiling and boiling mid-life crisis for an entire subculture. Consequences or the Russia variable provided little resistance to the Zeitgeist - the biggest "I told you so" in decades. There was no planning to be done.

Re: Germany has seized control of Gazprom Germania

#110
They sold the company to new owners on Friday who then tried to liquidate it. Gazprom Germania is the counterpart to Gas dealers and utilities. It then has an intra-company agreement with Gazprom Russia.

If they had liquidated, those contracts would have been gone and the Gas dealers & utilities would have had to renegotiate new contracts with Gazprom Russia. This would have allowed them to require payments in Rubles instead of Euros.

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